Talk:Sexual grooming

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False rumors and misconceptions

@Denaar: I included an excerpt in the the "History" section describing false accusations of child grooming, but this excerpt was removed; if this excerpt can't be included there, should this topic be mentioned elsewhere in the article? Jarble (talk) 03:18, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested changing the title of the article you quoted to Groomer (slur), because my reading of the article was the topic was "using the word Groomer to accuse or imply LGBT people are pedophiles" and was told I was incorrect, that is not the topic at all. The consensus is that the article is about the conspiracy that you can indoctrinate someone into being LGBT through means like drag queen story hours or sex education, which is why Anita Bryant is on the page (she opposed legislation requiring non-discrimination against homosexual teachers even in private Christian schools, where she said they would recruit children to become homosexual). I'd personally call the article homosexual recruitment and make "groomer rhetoric of the 2020's" a sub-section of that, but the consensus is opposed to any changes. That's why it doesn't belong here - because this article is about Child Sexual Abuse, not indoctrination. Denaar (talk) 05:19, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Grooming" means preparing someone for something. Because there is no "Main" (WP:BROAD) grooming article, every use of the term applied to people (even adults and teenagers) ends up on this page, and I'm slowly moving the information to separate articles so this one can focus on it's original topic as it was created: "Nonviolent Methods that child sexual abusers use to ensure compliance with child sexual abuse", which is how the term is used in psychology and counseling. I also updated the disambiguation page to have a section on "Grooming as indoctrination or recruitment" to catch all the ways the word grooming is used for gangs, terrorists, sexual exploitation of teenagers and adults, etc. Long term, I think there are some duplicates, as well as additional topics that need to be their own articles. Denaar (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Age of consent

A previous version of the article, without sources, defined child as someone under the age of consent. That does not seem to be correct; for example, the Canadian law cited later in the article says that for the purposes of the law, a "child means a person who is or appears to be under the age of eighteen years." The age of consent in Canada is usually 16. (t · c) buidhe 04:49, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 September 2023

The request to rename this article to Sexual grooming has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Child grooming → Sexual grooming – Grooming means to prepare someone/something for a purpose, which is why it covers things like "getting ready in the morning" and "cleaning and saddling horses" all the way to "mentoring someone for a leadership position. However, it's also used to describe a type of child sexual abuse. Most sources use grooming on it's own, sexual grooming is second most likely, then child sexual grooming is the third - but child grooming is rarer. The other problem with using the word "child" when there isn't an established meaning of "child grooming" is that there are arguments about what child means - the original meaning from the 80's of prepubescent children? Are Adolescents included or not? If it's a minor; what does that mean when some places allow 16 year olds to consent to sexual relationships and others use 18? As a representative discussion, this is a NY Times article from 2021 [1] you'll find it describes sexual grooming for children, adolescents, and even adults - and that's how it's described just about everywhere today. If we make a separate "Sexual Grooming" it would duplicate "Child Grooming" in 90% of it's content, so it makes more sense to use "Sexual Grooming" as the article scope. Denaar (talk) 00:27, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. "Sexual grooming" does seem clearer and a better representation of the focus of the article than "child grooming". ╠╣uw [talk] 11:24, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How about child sexual grooming instead ,, since social media is all aflutter about Chris Evans "grooming" a 26 year old right now, and how in the UK Russell Brand is also being accused of it for someone over the age of consent (which isn't grooming in the UK as it is over the age of consent? or so the victim seems to say), though it doesn't work too well with the attacks in mass media concerning gender identity, sexual identity, and grooming, as sex is cognate with gender; ? child sexual congressional grooming ? -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 04:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We have articles on those topics already, if you check the disambiguation page, including use of Groomer as a Slur word in multiple contexts. It's why I'm also proposing grooming be turned into a WP:BROAD article - the disambiguation page isn't working to help people find the topics they want, they just keep stuffing everything on this page. Denaar (talk) 12:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a dictionary and the content of this article should be determined by scholarly sources that are about this topic, not media usage of the word "grooming". (t · c) buidhe 16:59, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Rreagan007 (talk) 18:59, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. The meaning of the current title is actually perfectly innocuous (or should be) and doesn't mean what the article thinks it means. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:31, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hard agree. I would expect it to deal with a parent doing their child's hair. Red Slash 22:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support as proposed. If any rescoping is needed, rescope it. Red Slash 22:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate article

User:Denaar, without getting consesus for it, has created another article titled "Grooming" whose content is almost entirely about what is called "grooming" of children.

Where are the sources that confirm that there are two separate topics here that can support two wikipedia articles?

I don't think that "grooming" the word can support a Wikipedia article because we are not a dictionary and I don't see any sources that cover both, say, "grooming" someone to join an armed group versus the original use of child sexual "grooming" that is the topic of this article (see the requirements at Wikipedia:Broad-concept_article#Approaches) (t · c) buidhe 16:58, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]