Talk:Imaginary friend/Archive 1

Examples in Popular Culture

Is this list really necessary? I don't think it adds anything valuable and informational to the article, just creates a place for people to name their favorite pop-culture imaginary friends. That's not really the point of a Wikipedia article. 209.233.25.229 (talk) 02:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Half the content of this article is a whimsical list of popular culture references to imaginary friends. This article should contain legitimate information related to the psychology of imaginary friends or other serious content specifically related to that topic. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Groovymaster (talk • contribs) 20:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreeing with a comment from two years ago is insufficient justification for removal of content that many editors have found worthy of inclusion. I.E., There is not consensus for removal popular culture content. Proofreader77 (talk) 21:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Half the content of this topic is worthless garbage consisting of fictional references. I can add dozens of pages with pop culture references to "totem polls" and "psychiatry" or any other random topic on Wiki, It's ridiculous worthless garbage and doesn't belong here. This is a serious topic.

WIKIPEDIA TECH NOTE: Be sure to sign talk page comments with four tildes: ~~~~ ... That will add your username and a time stamp. NOTE: Yes, sometimes a bot will do it for you, but sometimes it won't—then someone else will have to code it in with a template, as I did above.)

WIKIPEDIA "SERMON" :) i.e., collegial advice — Characterizing other editors' contributions as "worthless garbage" could be perceived as rude etc etc not conducive to pleasant collaborative environment etc etc

re removal of popular culture section

• Note the talk page comments below which ask if "imaginary friend" is an American thing. I.E., Let us ponder the cultural aspects of interpretation of psychological phenomena ... and popular culture depictions in that context.

• See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Popular_Culture#Principles

• Yes, the popular culture section can be improved (perhaps shortened) ... Personally, I think a few bullet items is preferable to subsections and paragraphs in most cases—but if there are good references for cultural aspects of imaginary friend/companion depictions in popular culture yada yada yada

• No, there is not a consensus for removal of all popular culture information.
  -- Proofreader77 (talk) 21:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Imaginery Friends for Adults

Would the case for adults be any different then a childs? Or would that be considered "crazy"? --207.68.235.128 (talk) 02:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at Schizoid personality disorder. That's the only thing I know of for adults. Wouldn't call it "crazy" but it's not good either. Some authors also talk about their characters as though they're imaginary friends. I don't know how serious they are. --67.110.213.167 (talk) 03:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted this line about older children and adults: "Some child development professionals believe that the presence of imaginary friends past early childhood signals a serious psychiatric disorder." I don't believe, and I can't find any indication, that imaginary friends past preschool are thought to signal any substantial concern, never mind "disorder." It may have been thought that before, but I think it's sufficient to note that Spock thought so in the 40's, which I believe is true. The two citations are low quality and do not support the claim. Some additional reading: [1] [2] [3] (To the prior comments, no, not crazy. And the personality disorder mentioned above requires a number of serious symptoms: see the WHO criteria in the link. It isn't indicated by imaginary friends in adulthood.) It may also make sense to remove the "stigma" comment if there isn't anything to back it up. sbump (talk) 02:45, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Calvin and Hobbes

I think that the link to Calvin and Hobbes should be removed. Hobbes is not an imaginary friend, as Bill Watterson has emphasized. For this reason there is no concrete definition of Hobbes' reality, so that there will be no need for an explanation of the interaction between Calvin and Hobbes. Scorpionman 22:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I dont care what Bill Watterson wants to emphasize. Hobbes is a toy-doll as shown in many strips, and only Calvin see's him as a real companion. This is an imaginary friends, and until Bill Watterson would like to suggest a real alternative (even something ridiculous like it has to do with alternate universes or whatever) this is an imaginary friend whether he likes it or not, more so than something like "Fosters" where the so called "imaginary friends" actually manifest instantly into reality.

Hobbes' effects are often manifest, for instance when Hobbes injures Calvin upon bursting through the door (the dirt and scratching on Calvin are often observed by his Mother) or, to a lesser extent, when he hits Calvin with snowballs. And while debatable, Calvin's words are often accompanied by Hobbes' illustrations, whose credit in the picture books penned by Calvin is uncontested. --24.17.13.160 02:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

That above was me --The reverend 02:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

This is absurd. If we followed your logic, all imaginary friends in literature and film would have to be swiped from the list, because you can always speculate that maybe there's some reality to them simply because we're being shown the imaginary friend as though it's for real. marbeh raglaim 18:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

As a response on the effects of Hobbes in real life, I would simply point the Tyler Durden/Narrator relationship in Fight Club, where Durden actually injure, throw and beat the Narrator while being imaginary. And by the way, I'm the one who put the Hobbes reference (again?). edit: And even if Hobbes is real, the majority of the characters believe him imaginary, granting him to figure in this page, of course in my most humble opinion. karslow 10:48, 29 October 2009 (GMT)

God?

Is there some POV behind putting God in the See also? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 23:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

You see, God is an imaginary friend! Get it! Ha-HA! --Dans1120 20:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

No no no, god is just like an imaginary friend, so it should be in see also. Even the article states that "It has also been suggested that deities, spirits, totems, demons, and similar supernatural beings are the invisible friends of adults and children alike." Lapinmies 20:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Invisible, yes. Imaginary, POV. Should this debate be taken to invisies.com? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 01:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Imaginary, POV; invisible, POV, IMHO. Since the existence of God has yet to be proven, all exchanges relating to this are bound to be POV. I do agree that putting God under see also is not appropriate, even though personally I don't think that calling God an imaginary friend is all that far off.--213.172.254.113 08:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

The existance of god can never be proven or disproven, as there is no evidence calling any deity Not-imaginary is POV. By this I mean that the basic state of man is non-belief - the jump to believing in a god requires imagination, and so it should be stated in the article. Captain Crush 14:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

• How about where )s/he/it/they('re at now, in with the deities, demons, angels, and hobgoblins? And with the clarifying phrase afterward? It make the point that it has been a subject of debate (among some philosophers, definitely...dammit, now I have to go reference hunting again!) without making it factually presented as a definite conclusion with no controversy attached.

In favor of God hypotesis would be a known myth that says that children and sometimes adults have angels looking out for them , it can be theorized that some of those angles are seen by their mark and interpreted as a friend (or imaginary friend). Again , for the imaginary enemy , we have a whole array of ghosts ,demons ,shinigami,etc etc. To respect scientific method we have to follow 4 steps: 1.question : do imaginary friends exist? 2.hypothesis :if they exist , they are not imaginary. 3.experiment : take a random million people and ask them. 4.conclusion : a. unfalsifiable . a large percentage of people affirm they exist b. falsifiable .we don't have any single proven case for existence (also , being falsifiable means that one single case would prove our hypothesis ). by Pef —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.123.168.47 (talk) 23:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC) Resonanteye

• uhmn, i agree that god is an imaginary friend. it's invented for make the people feel good and protected, and never feel lonely. It has the same objectives, the only difference is that people belive that he commands them, and not the contrary, and that it's a colletive imaginary friend. God is nothing but a way of feeling safe and in company of someone. And earn money, sure, as the Catolic Church could tell you all...

but i guess it should be more imparcial in the article. We're a open thing here, there are many different opinions.

WP:OR No Original Research Cite your claim using a reliable source or it will not be included in the article. CyberKarl (talk) 16:00, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Julia Palazzo04/13/2007

• Right. Although it may be a fact that God is an imaginary friend, and it may actually be a demonstrable fact, since most people are unwilling to acknowledge it we aren't allowed to just state that outright. Marijuanarchy 16:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Some semantics on the god case. Imaginary does not equal fictitious. I can imagine a lovely ice cream in my freezer, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Demonwebb 00:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

For the same point, but without so much controversy, I think the link should point to Bicameralism instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.137.164.183 (talk) 22:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

If God is an imaginary friend, then I would hate to have him as an imaginary enemy. Hasn't been very friendly so far. 155.84.57.253 (talk) 13:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

God (if true) even created is a still an idea. He is not really a being. God is not seen by people normally (people hold faith in his existence).--207.68.235.128 (talk) 02:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I did this Wikipedia search exactly because I was curious after having watched the punk philosopher Angel David a.k.a. Dross describing God as an adulthood imaginary friend in a remarkably effective way. The inclusion of references to God under this title is perfectly valid. Aldo L (talk) 18:19, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Re-write

This article needs to be redone, its not encyclopedic or even well worded. BethEnd 20:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

How frequent was my behaviour?

I remember when I was 9 and I (sort of) had an imaginary friend. I say "sort of" because I never actually acted as if he was physically there with me: that is, I was not really convinced that my imaginary friend was real. Instead, I was more focussed on convincing other people that he was real. I made up an elaborate story about him (he was an alien from another dimension, and his people were the keepers of all secrets of all children from all inhabited planets; a portal leading to his dimension could be opened by pronouncing a secret phrase). I often drew short comics about him, and I even made audio recordings of him, complete with sound effects that I made with this toy and voice distortions (to simulate the voices of the aliens) that I obtained by speaking into a hollow globe made of porous plastic. If someone asked where my imaginary friend was, I did not say he was there just beside me and he was invisible; instead, I said he was not there: he was in his dimension with his people, and I would never open a portal with someone else watching, or else his dimension would be invaded by nosy people. Here I ask: was my case an exception, or is it more frequent than I think?

Devil Master, 23 Jul 2006, 13:17 (MET)

I did the same. Sometimes I even forgot about my friend until someone else reminded me. BethEnd 21:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I did the same, an imaginary labrador named Chocolate. Captain Crush 14:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Just sounds attention seeking to me. The LMOE (talk) 10:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I did it to. I had an imaginary crocodile named Alice and if I ever got hurt at recess I would tell my friends she attacked me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.240.55.173 (talk) 19:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Popular Culture

something needs to be added about imaginary friends in culture. For one, in CAST AWAY, we have the memorable Wilson. I have heard of other movies with imaginary friends, and one (whose name escapes me) was a horror based on the premise of an imaginary friend becoming real and killing people or summut of that nature. It would be apriciated if some people could add to these and perhaps we'll end up with something annex-worthy. --71.107.69.226 05:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

one example... drop dead fred another - Dave; Hugo's imaginary friend in the TV Series 'Lost'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.222.214.100 (talk) 14:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

My imaginary friend

Imaginary frineds are not real they are imaginary whitch here means they are not real you just imagine they are real. Now I am a girl who is young, and I happen to have an imaginary cat. If you think kids are weird for having them then thats ok just think about thats how we feel. It may be kind of like a religion but its not. It's just that people who have them may feel lonely or just want to imagine things and have fun. Just be kind to children and maybe even adult who have one their not weird, they are just trying to have fun.

You're correct-it's actually been proven that imagining a person or event with possible grounds in reality (such as an imaginary cat) can stimulate the person int pursuing such a person or event in reality-for example, if one imagines a conversation between themselves and their potential date, asking the person out is much easier because the person has already gone over the conversation in several different ways. 69.175.204.133 23:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, "the secret" documentary is about how the imagination manifests into real life. I think "trying to have fun" summarizes my experience on the topic and I'm sick of the negative ideas people have about this. You'd be crazy if you thought your friend (or cat :)) was real, but I think the majority of us know that they are in our heads and there is nothing unhealthy with this outlook.

concurred, with above fr a mental health specialist pov. :p 03:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Add to discussion: we need to destinguish the diff between: imaginary friends (to include the afromentioned cat and characters fr foster's home for imaginary friends) vs alter ego (marshall fr mr.brooks) and vs a presence no one else can see (captain howdy fr the exorcist). :p 03:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Imagining being a magic user

I had a simular case when I was a kid. But I never actually believed that I had an imaginary friend. In my case I imagined a magic-using robot as my guardian/friend. He'd watch over me until I became older and could use magic at which point he'd reveal himself to me. I'd see him flying along beside the car when I was riding in a car on the freeway, or imagine him talking with the president while waiting at the DR's office or while bored in school. I realize now that I probablly wanted to imagine that I would one day have greater control over the world than I had as a child.

I later thought that if I did the right combination of actions (seemingly random like opening a cabinet door 5 times and running in circles) I'd unlock some ancient, 'chance possibillity' in the universe and aquire the unusual abillity to use magic also. I would then take control of a group of magic users (including the magic user) and go about improving the world, in childish ways, like saving endagered species, stopping wars and building space-stations.

Later when I was leaving Elementary School I realized how much time I was wasting daydreaming about my imaginary friend(s) and I deiberately imagined them being destroyed in a bonfire. I basically killed them off so I could return to reality and live my life. Does this incident make me different from other people in a positive way, or is this perhaps not as unique as I thought. --~~JeremeyThatcher~~

Heh. That fate reminds me of an imaginary friend I had. I wrote his name on a piece of paper and when I found the paper years later, I looked for the place where I had last seen him and saw a little skeleton there and stupidly thought "Oh man, I forgot to feed him". Of course, in the blink of an eye I was back to reality. I was too grown-up to dwell on it any longer.--190.74.126.248 01:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Uh, sorry for the unrelatedness. No, it's not an uncommon thought. In my example, for instance, it was I who could perform the magic, but only on my imaginary friend (I would pick up a twig, and wave it to make him taller, shorter, harier, balder, bluer, etc). In the end, it also proved to be a desire to have more control than as a child, by giving me control over something even if I knew deep down that something wasn't real.--190.74.126.248 02:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Fight Club

Perhaps someone should add a reference to the book/movie "Fight Club"? Although, that might give away some of the details... --70.251.66.211 06:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather not have it there personally, even with a spoiler warning someone could ruin the movie for themself.

Gaah! If anyone reads this before they see the movie it's going to ruin it for them. Who would be such a jerk that they would even mention this?!?

Fight Club doesn't belong. Someone who has delusions/hallucinations is very different from what our society considers to be an "imaginary friend", not to mention the problem of spoilers mentioned already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.188.99.106 (talk) 09:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fight Club definitely doesn't belong. I'm going to go take it out, and explain why in the edit explanation. (I don't want to put spoilers here.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.171.233.73 (talk) 23:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

POV

Much of this article DOES need a rewrite. For example: "Having imaginary friends at an advanced age should be looked at by a proper psychologist, as it may be a mental or drug-related problem" (Imaginary friend 1). That is not an NPOV statement. An older person can have an imaginary friend without having a problem. - Noone 16:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I am a 22 year old and have my imaginary friend for 11 years now, half my life. He knows he's not real, we discuss in great lengths about our relationship, and he does nothing to negatively effect my life in anyway, and in fact enhances it by being the more rational of the two. I am not a lonely person, I go out regularly but for a short stage a few years ago, I started to believe there was something wrong with the idea, because of stupid comments like "its a mental/drug problem, see a psycologist". I now try to find more information on it and am frustrated by the lack of writings on the subject for adults that don't automatically see it as a problem. Does this relate to anyone else? Does anyone know of a good source to find this info? Because I am quite the expert on the subject as you can imagine (haha) and could contribute quite a bit.82.17.241.68 16:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

"i am 20 years old having an imaginary friend a year younger than me.its a girl.in reality the same exists but she really doesnt like me.she is my cousin and never comes to my house.but my imiginary friend visits me every day and behaves like i want my cousin to behave.i have no friend yet.what i have read on this site is true and praticle.i get worried even i cry when my imaginary friend cries and i laugh when it laughs.i enjoy our meetings but i am worried coz our relation ship is pretty much strong and hard to get rid of it.i want anyone like me to be my friend.please reply on mobile no 00923435278225 or email address Zainulislam@hotmail.com" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.103.193.30 (talk) 14:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

helping

I'm going to give it a copyedit NPOV run-through while my coffee brews. Resonanteye 14:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think this needs a re-write so much as to be filled out a little, and to have more sources for the information. It's not all that badly put together right now, it just doesn't have enough in it.

Drop me a note if I made any glaring errors, I would appreciate your feedback. Resonanteye

I think the article now misses the opposite of the imaginary friend, the imaginary enemy. Best regards, Brz7 12:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I wasn't sure about that one and maybe should have left it. Resonanteye 22:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there an origin for the term imaginary enemy or is it a neologism? If the latter, I don't think it deserves an article. Antonrojo 18:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Article

LiveScience has a page about imaginary friends: http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/061204_mm_imaginary_friends.html --Gray Porpoise_{Your wish is my command!} 22:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)]]

Harvey

I don't think he belongs in the list because it is made quite clear in the play and the movie that, although invisible, he is real and not imaginary. 64.231.15.43 11:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, a lot of the imaginary friends in literature and film turn out to be "real, not imaginary," but that's just a conceit. The reality of Harvey the Pookah is only hinted at during a few moments of the film. Symbolically, it still represents an imaginary friend, just as Snuffulufugus (however you spell that) does. marbeh raglaim 18:10, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I fear it's a fool's errand to post to a talk page that's already twenty times longer than the article.

Nevertheless, I think that in the case of Harvey, the audience is not intended to believe that Harvey is real; unlike some other Imaginary Friends, we're not offered ambiguity about the existence of an invisible six foot, four inch tall bow-tie-wearing talking rabbit. You haven't seen any around, have you? Instead, the audience is invited to enter Elwood's delusion, where a damaged, alcoholic person has found a reality safe for those who would rather be thought of as "Oh, so pleasant" than as "Oh, so smart".

So, I have no doubt that Harvey would be eligible for the list. Rt3368 (talk) 08:32, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Likely merge

Based on the AFD for Imaginary enemy, it looks like this will be merged into this article, leaving the military term version of the term there. If there is no evidence that 'imaginary enemy' is a common psychological term, I suspect that most of that information moved here will be deleted as unverified. Antonrojo 20:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Are imaginary friends a mainly American phenomenon?

Im British and 41 and have raised a daughter, but I have never heard of this imaginary friend issue except from watching American tv. Here, we tend to play along with a child's imagination, they love their fairy tales and so on, but as they reach a certain age, I would say 8-10 on average, they realise that there is no tooth fairy, Santa Klaus, or elves at the bottom of the garden. I used to hug a blanket, and most kids have a teddy or something, so maybe thats the closest to an imaginary friend, but I'm actually quite spooked by the alienness of this issue, and it would be interesting to see if there has been any research done comparing this phenomenon between countries. Demonwebb 00:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. It would be interesting to know if imaginary friends are deemed acceptable for children outside of the USA, particularly in Canada. Maikel (talk) 10:44, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

As a Canadian I can confirm that imaginary friends are deemed acceptable here. I don't think our views of imaginary friends are any different than in America. --Marshmello 20:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marshmello (talk • contribs)

Thanks, Marsh. Maikel (talk) 12:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly with the opening opinion - it pretty much describes word-by-word my feelings. One thing I would expect from this article would be an explanation as to why a statement (like, say:"Mommy, be careful, you nearly stepped on the tail of Spot, my invisible 10 meters tall pink dragon friend!"), which would back home at least raise a parent's eyebrow and start a small attack of panic for the welfare of the child, almost as a rule seems to be met with friendly, knowing smiles and mild amusement on American tv. Is it a tv thing? Or are imaginary friend really that commonplace in America (and Canada, apparently)? What exactly are the "views on imaginary friends" that a user above mentioned? Having imaginary friends is apparently not discouraged, but is it also encouraged? Etc etc... TomorrowTime (talk) 21:11, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

There are British accounts. I've added a link to a recount of a childhood experience from the early 20th century. Kulaguru (talk) 21:21, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I am from Croatia and also haven't heard, seen or experienced anything like that. From my experience it is the case too in the neighbouring countries like Italy, Bosnia, Austria and Slovenia, and pretty sure the same is in rest of Europe, especially Germany and France. And if such a case actually occurs, which is rare, it usualy does stem from some psychological problems. Having said that, is it possible that accepting it so lightly actually represents ignoring some psychological disorders? Not necessary an actual mental illnes, but some sort of distress perhaps. --arny (talk) 02:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Being from Germany and having consulted my Lithuanian and Turkish friends, I'm also under the impression that this is an almost exclusively north american phenomenon. -- OppositeLock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.130.131.164 (talk) 13:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Also I find quite disturbing the assertion that some children actually cannot distinguish imaginary from real people. I remember being a child, there were moments of wildest imagined ideas... but I do remember that practically not for a moment I would think any of that stuff was actually real. The normal reaction is that you wish it was real, that you don't care if it's not real, but never to assume it is real... arny (talk) 11:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I am from Spain and I also only have heard references to imaginary friends on TV (normaly in american shows). I'm not sure I understand the concept, I was a very imaginative child, I loved to create stories, I had my own superhero universe with hundreds of characters, but I never imagined a friend. Maybe what certain people call imaginary friends is the same thing as my superheroes? I really never cosidered them "friends", never talked to them, they were simply characters in my stories.79.148.61.190 (talk) 14:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd say you described exactly the same situation as I did above - being a child, one imagines whole new universes indeed, but doesn't mix them with reality, much less does one believe an imagined character to be a real person. So, from the several European comments here we could draw a conclusion that such things aren't considered normal here... arny (talk) 08:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so while i agree that North Americans have a higher amount of youngsters with different mental disorders (at least thats what i read in a medical article 3 years ago), imaginary friends are not-per say- a North American phenomenon. I myself am a Brazilian, who moved to England at the age of 9, and then to America at the age of 11, and i so happen to have had a imaginary friend since at least the age of 4, from where i wrote a letter/drawing to him in order to say sorry for letting some kid take his chocolate (He is with black hair, dark blue eyes and a unending love for collecting things like trading cards and stickers, acting like an idiot just to confuse and weird people people out, and making a complicated mess out of every simple thing by the way, and he is the reason why I'm a tomboy, bought two books on how to be immature, and simply don't know how to move around without skipping, running and/or swirling.). I actually believe that North Americans make a bigger deal out of it, because when i was in Brazil i once told a friend's mom about Eduardo, she only smiled and said it wasn't important, but here in Florida i keep hearing about how a bunch of mental disorders and that imaginary people are the sign of something wrong with the person itself. Im glad that i don't buy that into that crap anymore because there is no way that Eduardo is getting out of my life, and there was a point were i tried.

Global references (imaginary friend/imaginary companion)

• Japan (A quick find, but suspect full global perspective will be harder to locate) -- Proofreader77 (talk) 18:43, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Could we get some actual text quotes from manuals or statistics that verify the percentage of children in N.America that suffer from this disorder ?Could it be related to child abuse or television violence that provoke a post-traumatic response? 86.123.168.47 (talk) 20:36, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Based on what? They have TV violence everywhere now; child abuse is not a North American phenomenon; imaginary friends are way more common than child abuse; and there are loads of purposes imaginary friends are believed to serve, such as practicing social situations and language, none of which have anything to do with trauma. This is not considered a disorder and nobody suffers from it. --67.110.213.167 (talk) 03:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

'Frank the bunny' as an imaginary friend

Should 'Frank the bunny' from Donnie Darko be removed from the list? Donnie originally believes that Frank is an imaginary friend (as does his psychologist), but it is later revealed that Frank was a real (dead) person who was appearing to him as a sort of premonition so he could stop the world from ending. --Marshmello 20:18, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I think what matters here is that the movie uses the concept of having an imaginary friend as a plot device. Maikel (talk) 12:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I've readded Frank. Donnie states clearly in the film that he regards Frank as an imaginary friend. Totorotroll (talk) 15:55, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Why in the USA and Canada?

What's missing from this article is how the concept of children having imaginary friends (and it being a normal childhood thing) came to be so popular in North America. It would be great if someone could provide information. Maikel (talk) 12:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

A hallucination or just talking to what you can see is thin air?

I never had any sort of imaginary friend or some such. Do the children have actual hallucinations and see people John Nash style (but without the schizophrenia:-)) or do they just talk to thin air, where they can see that no one is there as much as an observer by simply find companionship in nothing? 86.134.12.18 (talk) 22:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I have an imaginary friend, and I don't see her. I just pretend she's there. Even if I try, I can't see a hallucination of her, only pretend-see. I'm watchin' you,mon (talk) 03:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

When I talk to my imaginary friend (even when I was a little girl), I used my mind's eye. I saw her in my mind, but not with my eyes. 98.220.223.197 (talk) 21:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

honestly? I SAW him. as in, actually see him like everything else. he could touch stuff and move it around too, but when i'd look on a recording, it was me. fun eh? actually not at all and it worried me sick. nowadys I've learned not to worry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.205.93 (talk) 17:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know (from the perspective of someone who had and still has multiple imaginary people... I can't call them friends, they're more just inhabitants of my imaginary world), most people do not "see" imaginary friends. If they do, that probably signifies that they are hallucinating, which could be a symptom of something more serious than imaginary friendship! I never "saw" my imaginary friends- they were just that, imaginary. I invented them to occupy myself and for companionship, basically. Sometimes the imaginary world is far more interesting than the real one! Alinnisawest (talk) 19:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as real goes , anything we see or feel is real , regardless if other people see or feel it. Reality is the most subjective experience we have , for example : pain vs phantom pain ... both hurt is the degree of hurt less for phantom pain? , mostly likely no. Placebo effect is one of the most compelling arguments for the subjectivity of reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.123.168.47 (talk) 20:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Imaginary occurances

I didn't have any imagineary friends when I was little, but I had some imaginary "experiences". For example, i clearly remember rays of bright colors shooting across the night sky, and two goats singing (in human voice) while grazing. There were other incidents too. I believed in these and remembered them just like actual memories until I was grown up enough to realize they couldn't possibly have happened actually. Is there any name (or an article) for such a phenomenon? Thanks. 124.30.235.62 (talk) 15:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly it was some sort of an actual hallucination. Alinnisawest (talk) 23:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Make-believe vs. hallucination

I have a serious problem with the assertion that: Some report their 'imaginary friends' manifest themselves physically and are indistinguishable from 'real' people. It is my understanding that children, when challenged (ie, not humored), will admit their imaginary friends are "make believe" and are simply part of play activiies rather than actual hallucinations. Manifesting physicaly would meet the criteria of schizophrenia.

SIDE NOTE: I wonder whether, in American culture at least, young girls are most likely to have imaginary friends as they are generally humored by adults when engaging in imaginary play. I realize this is a circumstantial observation but I have observed that my married friends who have very young girls tend to be entertained by the child naming their dolls, having conversations with their stuffed animals, etc. In contrast, a young boy of the same age is likely to be scolded for engaging in similar make-believe play. To be clear, it has been my observation that a young girl is perceived as cute and entertaining while a young boy is perceived as silly or foolish to the point where the parents exhibit irritation or frustration with the boy's behavior. Groovymaster (talk)

Never saw it that way myself; boys I know who talk to them have been "humored" just as much. However, I have seent hat boys are sometimes mroe...well, ornery with them than girls, tending to blame them for mischief, insted of using them for companionship. When that occurs, in my experience, it is annoying to adults, but when the boy just uses them as cmopanions and to work through problems and such, the naming/talking to stuffed animals is encouraged.

As with all parental things, though YMMV (your mileage may vary) - our exsperiences are all potentially very different.

BTW, how did the signature get there without a timestamp?172.164.109.78 (talk) 12:31, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Three of these ~~~ instead of four. I think. Lova Falk talk

Maurice Bloch

I've added a paragraph about the views of Maurice Bloch. His work concerns the physiological and social development of imagination, and deals with the interaction of people with imaginary 'others' I hope that we can agree that it is relevant and useful to the article, although I'm not sure if it is in the right position. Splodgeness (talk) 00:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Deletions

I am going to delete the folowing, as it is copied word for word from this site [4], and I cannot find refs for it.

People may invent imaginary friends for companionship, as part of play, or for other reasons. Imaginary friends can serve as an important source of companionship to some children and adults. As an example, clinical psychologists[who?] have reported that[citation needed] young children in boarding schools often develop imaginary friends to cope with extreme stress and separation from their family. According to several psychological theories[citation needed], children may use their imaginary friends as outlets for expressing desires which they would normally be afraid to engage in or for which they would normally be punished. Proponents of these theories state[5] that it is not uncommon for a child to engage in mischief or wrong-doing and then to blame the crime on their imaginary friend, allowing the child to act out fantasies that they are otherwise restricted from experiencing due to societal constraints. Similarly, psychologists[who?] report[citation needed] that children often give their imaginary friends personality traits that they themselves lack and make their imaginary friends into ideal versions of themselves: shy children often describe their imaginary friends as playful and outgoing jokers who are always making them laugh and who are very popular.

Akohler ^Talk @ 13:15, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Religions and deities

maybe we could have a "here's a cool idea I heard at a party last night" section? Some atheist/agnostic scholars have criticized religions and deities on the basis of the imaginary friend argument. I'm not sure how this adds up within the article, but it certainly is a recurring topic among skeptics and non-believers of various sorts. ADM (talk) 22:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC) "not sure how it adds up....???" How about, "What a friend we have in Jesus..." if that isn't a direct correlation to imaginary friends, then what is? This article is DEFICIENT without mention of the fact that many of the world's otherwise seemingly intelligent occupants believe in something that cannot be seen, felt, heard, or demonstrated to non-believers. If that is not imaginary, then we need a new dictionary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.120.208.98 (talk) 02:26, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

As a former minister, I used to have two imaginary friends, one of whom was a god. That doesn't seem controversial to me because, even when I believed that the god was real, people who believed in different gods/religions thought that my god was imaginary and that only their god was real. So when I say that I used to have an imaginary friend named Jesus, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with atheism. I could have just converted to a different religion. That said, my other imaginary friend was not a god, and I always knew that she wasn't real, but I eventually realized that I interacted with her in almost the same ways as I interacted with the god, and, now that I understand that my god was imaginary, I believe that this article is deficient without mention on spiritual beings. Don't you think that the followers of *insert name of religion you don't like* MIGHT be interacting with imaginary beings?

And the fact that God can't be disproved is not a good reason to avoid it because neither of my imaginary friends could have ever been disproved. My non-god imaginary friend was also invisible, stubborn, didn't influence the material world, and could only communicate with me. How can you prove that she doesn't actually exist? And it's silly to say that the only reliable sources for this idea are those who promote God. That's like saying that the only reliable sources for Obama criticism are Democrats. What if we find a neuroscientific study about brain activity while interacting with imaginary friend and God? Would that be unreliable just because the researchers don't have a religious talk show? Would it be okay to mention it if it showed a difference, saying something like, "Prominent atheists have suggested that spiritual beings are analogous to childhood imaginary friends, but a comparisons of brain activity show that people use different regions when praying than when talking to an imaginary friend?"

But, seriously, anyone familiar with atheism knows that there is a TON of text on the "god as an imaginary friend" issue from prominent atheists, and, whether you agree with them or not, properly citing these claims from Dawkins, etc., is not only NPOV, leaving them out lowers the quality of Wikipedia as an encyclopedic resource. 64.235.140.170 (talk) 19:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Category errors and unscientific rhetoric

Dawkins (Slate magazine interview, April 28, 2005):

“ Religion is scarcely distinguishable from childhood delusions like 'imaginary friend' and the bogeyman under the bed. Unfortunately, the God delusion possesses adults, and not just a minority of unfortunates in an asylum. ”

The above, I will posit, lacks scientific rigor. The trope of God as imaginary friend might be a sourced discussion (which might perhaps reflect poorly on Dawkins as a scientist). Whether that belongs in this article is debatable ... Will examine other sources... Proofreader77 (talk) 02:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

right, not every idea that someone has, even if it can be cited to someone while they were being interviewed qualifies as notable or relevant knowledge.

Fact is that while in children having an imaginary friend only occurs 65% , in adults that percent reaches 95% (if you count believers).Based on this i tend to think its normal for humans to have an imaginary friend, and the others are defects.

It is most probably a survival trait we humans aquired during long nights in caves with hungry wolves outside , a way to remain functional while fear and anxiety were overwhelming.

Also , this phenomenon , of using dialogue to calm our fears is used by humans with non-sapient beings such as pets or company animals and plants.The beneficial efects of talking and pouring out the fears onto non-responsive friends are well-documented and are the basic of modern psychology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.123.168.47 (talk) 17:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Excuse brief response for the moment. The article is about a specific psychological phenomena. Broadly lumping e.g., the percentage of all people who have some kind of religious belief in a deity (as well as, e.g., pouring out one's feelings to listening friends) with, e.g., children who have had an imaginary companion at some point in their life [5] is something other than straightforward analysis. (More later.) Proofreader77 (talk) 22:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Atheist "Weaslewords?"

There is nothing WEASLE about adding to this Wiki page that God is imaginary, and many adults claim to have God as a personal friend, saviour or whatever. Why was this cut out? Yes I am atheist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.165.55.147 (talk) 04:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

If you want to link the notion of belief in God (or gods) with that of an imaginary friend, you'll first need to find reliable sources which do so, then cite them here. Otherwise, it will likely be taken out as your own original research. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:54, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

[reliable sources] would include [the pope,] [ministers], [Pat Robertson], [Focus on the Family], [700 Club], [Trinity Broadcasting Network], and any others who promote the concept of [God.] So which one would be adequate to put this on reasonable footing? ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.165.55.147 (talk) 04:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Disregard inappropriate edit summary "(Atheist Weaslewords)"

I believe we may describe that edit summary as an attempt at humor.

Atheism is not the issue—other than the attempt to make this article a vehicle for the God/Atheism debate. Wrong article. (If further discussion is needed, I'll reply at greater length). Proofreader77 (talk) 00:15, 28 March 2009 (UTC) 79.148.61.190 (talk) 14:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

A few more appearances in popular culture

• Puff the Magic Dragon -- anyone familiar with imaginary friends will see the resemblances
• Winnie the Pooh -- and you Europeans claim this is exclusively a North American phenomena. (Then again, The Hundred-Acre Wood might actually be located outside of Toronto. Or Boston.)
• I have heard of a short story by the late J.D. Salinger about a mother who sees her child's imaginary friend as a rival for affection; the child sends the imaginary friend away -- only to create a new one.
• I'll admit that this is the sketchiest of the three, because it is based on a memory at least 40 years old: there was a black & white television program -- I'm thinking either the original Twilight Zone or Outer Limits, one of those old anthology series -- which had an episode where a child's imaginary friend played a role. All I remember about the episode was the end, where the parents & the child are leaving a house & saying goodbye to the imaginary friend. (Does anyone else remember this episode? I'd very much like to know what it was & verify just how accurate my memory was about this.) -- llywrch (talk) 20:31, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Needs better discussion of what "imaginary friends" are / mean

This article needs much more discussion of what an "imaginary friend" actually is, and the psychology etc behind them. At the moment, most of the article is about fictional depictions of them. It doesn't even clearly define what imaginary friends are - I can't tell if they are merely characters in stories that children make up in their heads (something I did a lot as a child, and still do as an adult), or if they are some sort of halucination that the child genuinely thinks is real and thinks they are interacting with.

Furthermore, as several other people have said, this appears to be a North Americal phenomena, or at least, I've never heard of anyone in Britain talking about having them (other than in satire about religion), and have only once seen a fictional mention of one in a British novel. If imaginary friends are a mainly North American thing (or conversely, they are know by some other term esewhere) then this needs to be discussed (including any proposed reasons for this).

Finally, does the lede really need to say "though they are ultimately unreal, as shown by studies.[1]"? Did anyone seriously think imaginary friends actually exists? (Or do we need to add similar conclusions to the articles on leprechauns and other imaginary creatures?) 86.178.151.247 (talk) 11:33, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

PS, I'm going to remove the claim about Calvin and Hobbes, as it is uncited and contradicts the author's own statements about his work.

Famous people with imaginary friends

Could we possibly modify the article to include a list of famous people (real, not fictional) who claimed to have imaginary friends when they were young? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is George Orwell, who mentioned "holding conversations with imaginary persons" in his essay Why I Write. Can anybody think of any others?Moloch dhalgren (talk) 17:59, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how such a list would contribute to our encyclopedic knowledge of imaginary friends, and I therefore oppose to creating such a list. Lova Falk talk 18:31, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

First sentence seems incorrect

Imaginary friends and imaginary companions are a psychological and social disorder [...]. This would mean that a 4 year-old child with an imaginary friend has a social disorder. Is that the prevailing opinion of psychologists, et. al.?

I don't want to reword it myself, not being very knowledgeable on this topic, but thought I'd make mention of it.

As an aside, if that is the prevailing opinion, then the word disorder, which currently links to Disorder page, should point to one of the pages listed there under "Psychological disorders". Two candidates come to mind, Mental disorder or Personality disorder.

Ted Rader, III 02:48, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. The rest of the article doesn't bear out the idea that having an imaginary friend in childhood is a social or psychological "disorder." I'm not knowledgeable enough about the phenomenon to alter the wording, but I'd be grateful if someone would. It's probably important to distinguish clearly between imaginary friends in early childhood, which is a form of play, and imaginary friends in adulthood, which is probably a hallucination. Few would think of children playing with dolls as evidence of a disordered mind.Sadiemonster (talk) 07:26, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Planning edits

Potential Resources

Using imaginary friends in Play therapy:

Elizabeth Freidin Baumann (2013) Use of a Projective Test in Psychodynamic Play Therapy with a Latency Age Child to Explore Themes of Attachment and Loss, Journal of Infant, Child, and Adolescent Psychotherapy, 12:4, 250-259, DOI: 10.1080/15289168.2013.850368

What kind of children create imaginary friends?

Seiffge-Krenke, Inge. (1997) Imaginary companions in adolescence: Sign of a deficient or positive development? Journal of Adolescence. Vol.20(2), 137-154.

Cait ash (talk) 03:15, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Cait ash
Great topic and it fits with much of what we are reading right now in class. As Scout37 said on your talk page, this appears to be a page with a lot of potential and quite a few issues, though it seems to have settled recently. Your first two choices of sources are probably both problematic from the perspective of Wikipedia editing. Wikipedia likes to see secondary sources such as handbooks, encyclopedias and textbooks. This is because they are looking for the parts of the science that people agree about, rather than individual perspectives on developing topics. The handbook I mentioned on your talk page will be useful. I look forward to seeing what other sources you find. Paula Marentette (talk) 03:47, 20 October 2014 (UTC)