Talk:List of autistic fictional characters/Archive 1

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Archive 1

What about using the discussion page for POV?

The list seems incredibly short considering the number of movies containing characters showing traits of autism. The first one that comes to mind is "Forrest Gump" based on a book written by Winston Groom. Gump, Mr. Groom once stated, was based on a man he heard about living near him in the south. The man was an idiot savant. He had no other skills than he could play the piano beautifully. For everything else the man needed a caretaker to do for him. Although Mr. Groom never says that he made Gump out to be autistic it is obvious that Gump was written with autistic traits. (Autism has been classically misdiagnosed as retardation many times.)

And can I state that many characters in film are based off of a writer's first hand experience of people even if they don't know the person's diagnosis. Mike Judge in his movie "Office Space" used a character obsessed with his red stapler. The character's name escapes me but Mr. Judge based his character's tendencies off of a fellow co-worker he once knew.

Can there be an active discussion on this page of fictional characters? Many creators won't state in their work if a character is autistic, but the character may be based on a real person who is. A prospective list of fictional autistics may lead to finding evidence that a creator did have autistic traits in mind.

I think it could be a good idea to have a separate section of this page that is something like, "Fictional characters that were based on autistic people". I think I heard somewhere that the Mr. Bean character was based on an autistic person; I would encourage adding him to the list if a reference can be found. As for staying NPOV, I think it would be better to say something like "Forest Gump was based on an autistic person" instead of "Forest Gump was autistic". Q0 07:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Ripley

Ellen Ripley from the film Alien: Resurrection, described as "emotionally autistic" after her resurrection.

She is described as autistic, but this is not actually correct. Autistics are no different emotionally from neurotypicals. Now, should this reference be kept because the movie identifies her as autistic, or removed because it is wrong? Alister Namarra 19:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Protection

I noticed that it is extremely common for anonymous users to add speculation to this article. I am considering requesting that this page be protected so that anonymous users who wish to contribute to it would register first, and hopefully would learn about wikipedia's verifyability policies in the registration process. Q0 11:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. Raoul 17:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Napoleon Dynamite?

I very much doubt that Napoleon Dynamite was written to be autistic. Unless someone knows that one of the story's creators actually said this, I think it should be removed. --DearPrudence 19:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Please be WP:BOLD and remove it. This article has been a magent for speculation and original research. Pburka 18:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, removed. --DearPrudence 01:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

A middle of the road idea

How about creating a separate page with unconfirmed possible autistics in literature. This way we can have a list of people who exhibit autistic tendencies. Einstein is stated as having possibly been autistic. Why couldn't literary characters predating the diagnoses of autism also be autistic, just like people were.Sith Lord 13 03:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason that People speculated to have been autistic can say that Albert Einstein is speculated to have been autistic is that there are references that specify who has done such speculation. This article used to have separate sections for characters identified as autistic by the authors and those speculated to have been autistic by fans. The speculative section almost got the whole article deleted (see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of fictional characters on the autistic spectrum) and the speculative section was removed as a result. Q0 22:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, well thats why it would be a seperate page that would say that most of this is speculation. There are some characters in lit who seem very autistic but no one cares enough for such speculation to be bothered with making it official. There could be a huge heading at the top that says that these are not confirmed. Sith Lord 13 20:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

If you create a new article for fictional characters speculated to be autistic then I would not mind. However, I would expect it to be deleted. Wikipedia has a policy against original research and all information in the wiki must be based on outside references. If a Wikipedian forms a judgement that a fictional character is on the autistic spectrum and adds that person to the article on that basis, that would be publishing original research. If someone outside Wikipedia has done speculation involving a fictional character, and Wikipedia reported it, then that would not be original research, but speculation does need to be separate from fictional characters described as autistic by their authors. Wikinfo has an article that allows speculation at http://www.wikinfo.org/wiki.php?title=List_of_fictional_characters_on_the_autistic_spectrum but I'm not sure that something like this can be accepted on Wikipedia. Q0 02:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I was just looking for something like that, I'm going to check it out now.Sith Lord 13 07:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Legion (Marvel Comics)

In regard to the following entry on the list: Legion (Marvel Comics) [1], I did a text search for the words "autism", "autistic", and "Asperger" on the document, and I did not find those words. Could the quote be pointed out to me that explicitly states that the character has been described as being on the autistic spectrum by the author? Q0 03:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I just looked threw and apparently its not. Could someone please add it in there, as I don't have time to do so.

Unless, you meant on the page I referenced in which case "Eventually, Charles began to take his most active role ever with the X-Men by accompanying them on missions. During this time, Gabrielle requested Charles’ help in treating her son David, the powerful psionic mutant known as Legion who suffered from multiple personality disorder. Charles learned that David was his child, and helped him emerge from his autistic condition."Sith Lord 13 03:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I will remove the disputed tag. Q0 03:48, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Legion has been described as having autism and is now on the list of fictional characters with autism. [1] [2]

Some new additions

  • But i don't remember actor/character names. 'The Wizard', and 'The Boy who Could Fly'. 'The Wizard' is a LFA (possibly becuase of upbringing, looks recoverable to HFA) autistic who discovers his savant ability in video games. 'The Boy who Could Fly' is HFA? who wants to fly so bad that he actually gets it, right at the end of the movie.
I assume you're going for Tommy, here? Ambyr 03:07, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I have a suspicion that Cliff Clavin, the mailman from Cheers, was Aspergic. Thoughts?

--ScottAlanHill 06:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Suspicion doesn't matter. This is a list of fiction characters who have been explicitly identified as autistic by their creator, either within the narrative they inhabit or in another venue. Ambyr 02:30, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd like to nominate Frederick/Ferdinand in "The Collector" [2] the main character in John Fowles first novel (first published - the original "The Magus" may have been written earlier). First published by Jonathan Cape, 1963; later by Little, Brown and Company, 1963; Triad/Granada 1976; Back Bay Books, 1997. Anyone disagree? Edetic 19:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Bartleby, the Scrivener

The citation is from a text about the character not written by the author. It's speculation. This wiki says that it includes characters said by the authors to be in the autistic spectrum. I'm removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.86.40.220 (talk) 17:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Legion is autistic?

All I really have to say is I find the evidence hard to believe. I know how comic books are ... the story line is prone to constant change ... and I think that to say Legion is autistic just based on a couple of webpages by fans of the comic is a bit much. Soap Talk/Contributions 23:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

No, when the character was first introduced, the source material itself called him autistic repeatedly. Doczilla STOMP! 04:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Other pages like this?

Are there any other pages like this for other kind of disorders, like a list of fictional characters with bipolar or something. Cause if not someone should make one. I might be able to give a few suggestions if someone wanted to start one. (And if this section doesn't belong on this page, don't bother getting all mad and ranting off, just delete it. -Lea (talk) 14:23, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Evil Genius?

The math professor from the book Evil Genius is explicitly referred to in the novel as autistic; in fact, his autism becomes a critical element to the plot of the story.

For the life of me, though, I can't find remember his name or find a source that states this. Redyoshi49q (talk) 18:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Cameron Phillips

Eventhough she is non-human, the character of Cameron Phillips| from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles has on-screen been referred to as having Aspergers by an in-universe psychologist. I don't know if this page is for humans only, but this might be interesting (and might raise a question whether to call a being autistic, when its entire kind has traits of autism (like Vulcans)). Cyanid (talk) 13:37, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Confirmation, please

Reginald Barclay
Charlie Gordon from Flowers for Algernon
Sherlock Holmes
I remember reading somewhere that these people were on the autistic spectrum, but don't remember where. They made sense so I'm posting them here in hopes someone can confirm them either way.Sith Lord 13 07:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle died in 1930 (according to the wikipedia article). Autism was not described until 1943, so he cannot have described Sherlock Holmes as autistic. Raoul 11:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but just because Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did not specifically state so, does not mean he does not have autistic characteristics. And Einstine was never officially diagnosed as autistic but he is on the list of people with autisim. Is there any reason that the same could not be with Mr. Holmes. Art imitates life my dear Watson, When Reed Richards was first written, he exhibited the same qualities he does today, but it was quite some time before someone came out and said he had some autistic characteristics.Sith Lord 13 23:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is to list characters identified by the author as being autistic. However autistic a character is they do not belong on this page unless they were identified by the author as autistic. I'm almost inclined to delete every single unreferenced name on the list at the moment as this is currently a very poor article, the only thing that is stopping me doing this is that it would have only 2 or 3 names left. Raoul 16:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't think there would be anything wrong with having 3 names left. Then the article would basically be a stub which exist on Wikipedia. I think deleting all unreferenced entries is a good idea. Q0 03:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Why is it only ones identified by the authors? Why should literary characters be held to a higher standard then people? If professionals who assess them find them to be autistic, even if it wasn't the authors original stated purpose, they should be put on the list. Characters from books don't always end up the way the author intended them to, atleast when written by a skilled author.Sith Lord 13 00:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Albert Einstein is in a list of people speculated to have been autistic. He can be there because that is a list of people speculated to have been autistic, not people known to be autistic. Einstein would never be allowed on the list of autistic people. In addition, Einstein can only be on the list of people speculated to have been autistic because there are noteworthy references that specify who has speculated him to be autistic. Just like the way confirmed autistic people and speculated autistic people are in separate articles, if speculated fictional autistic people are to be included in Wikipedia, it would have to be in a separate article. However, speculation of actual people is much more common than speculation of fictional characters so I think a new article about speculated fictional characters would fail notability. Q0 03:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we should add a section to this article that says "Characters assumed to be autistic (without confirmation from the author)" or the like. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to analyse characters and decide they are autistic. Sometimes, who knows, the author might have had mild autistic traits and modelled the character after the way they would act, or modelled the character after someone they knew, who were autistic but had never been diagnosed. In such cases the characters would be clearly autistic, without the author knowing it.--Mithcoriel (talk) 20:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

No. This would be speculative and vague. Doczilla STOMP! 09:54, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Bad, bad list!

This list is a horrible HORRIBLE mess! I've just removed three entries where the creators of the characters specifically denied that they'd written our entry an Asperger character...and those are just the three I checked!

We really can't go around saying things like "This character seems to have the right characteristics so lets add him/her to the list". That is WP:OR or (at best) WP:SYNTH and it's not allowed here! Every single entry that doesn't have a specific reference that says either that the author has confirmed that this is the way the character was written - or a qualified medical opinion that says that someone has done a diagnosis of the fictional character - has got to go. That's probably 80% of the entries here...so probably this list should be headed for AfD. SteveBaker (talk) 14:53, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I removed the entries that were completely unreferenced. I think it's worth discussing whether we should have to see the author say it specifically or if an otherwise-reliable source such as a movie review is acceptable. —Soap— 15:13, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Jonah Jeremiah "JJ" Jones- from the tv show "Skins" had aspergers .... maybe add him to the list of tv characters —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.209.67.59 (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Max from Parenthood

How is he not on the list? That is a major storyline of the show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.165.123 (talk) 19:38, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

In the time it took you to complain here, you could have fixed it yourself. - SummerPhD (talk) 23:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Sheldon Cooper?

I am very suprised not to see Sheldon Cooper, one of the stars of hugely popular sitcom "The Big Bang Theory" mentioned in any of the talk page. He is pretty much a walking, talking textbook example of a gifted "aspie" (that term seems awkward to me, but sounds better than "person with aspergers syndrome") The wikipedia page on him has extensive examples of Asperger-typical behavior. According to that article, while the writer's of the show didn't specifically set out to make him an (see, autistic is a word, but I am pretty sure aspergeric isn't, the neccessitating the word) "aspie", Jim Parson who portrays has stated that he "couldn't display more traits" of Asperger's. Just my two cents. Imascrabblefreak (talk) 06:40, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

If you can find a cite for the claims you are making, he can be added to the list. Aspie Lover (talk) 05:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Right - the authors DENIED that they wrote him as an aspie - and unless we have some proper medical opinion in a reliable source somewhere - then he can't be listed that way because it's WP:OR. It's not enough to have some film or TV reviewer say that the character is an aspie because those people are utterly unqualified to do a diagnosis. Note in particular the Rain Man entry - we say Raymond is an aspie - but the authors based him on the real-world savant Kim Peek - who had FG syndrome. Hence there is no possible way you can claim Rain Man as an example! SteveBaker (talk) 14:53, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
I've seen the movie, and my memory isn't the best, but I believe he was specifically described as autistic within the movie. (Not Asperger's though.) Besides, Kim Peek was believed to be autistic at the time, so the fact that it turned out to be incorrect shouldn't affect what is true within the context of the movie. —Soap— 15:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
"I believe" is not a source, but yes, the movie Rain Main explicitly and repeatedly identifies him as having autistic disorder. Doczilla STOMP! 03:07, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
"This article includes only fictional characters explicitly described in the work or otherwise by the author as being autistic or having Asperger syndrome." Sheldon Cooper does not qualify. Doczilla STOMP! 12:36, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Claudette St. Croix

Kinda surprised the people debating over Legion forgot about Claudette St. Croix from Generation X. Granted, her siblings Monet and Marius are more famous than her, and she hasn't been seen recently. But I would still think her autism was more notable than Legion's, considering it practically defined her character, where Legion was more defined by his multiple personalities than anything else. At any rate, I'm pretty sure issue 40 of Generation X is the very first time that Claudette, specifically, is said to be autistic. Any earlier description should have been referring to the false Monet, who in turn got her symptoms from Claudette, so I didn't count those. I'll double-check my back issues before I add her, to be sure the reference is correct, but I think I have that right so far. XFan0609 (talk) 11:28, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

M says McCoy was incorrect in thinking she was autistc, but you're right, it came up. In addition to pinning down the issues, though, criteria for this page require inclusion of a reliable external source, not just the comic book, that identifies her as autistic. Doczilla STOMP! 09:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Lisbeth Salander

I added Lisbeth Salander to the list, and I will try to find a good reference. I'm not sure whether Stieg Larsson's books say she has Asperger's, or whether that's only hinted at in his trilogy.

Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 09:07, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Here it says that "in these [...] books, Lisbeth is referred to as having AS quite a few times by different characters".
Accusativen hos Olsson (talk) 09:41, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Look, I don't mean to antagonize you but this is exactly the sort of entry that has caused trouble on this page in the past. If you have to add a {{citation needed}} to your own edit, you shouldn't be making the edit in the first place. Bringing it up on the talk page is perfectly okay, in case someone else here can find a reliable source for it (linkedIn doesn't pass unless it can be shown that one of the people saying Salander is AS is the author of the books). —Soap— 11:46, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
All three books explicitly state that other characters, including psychiatrist Teleborian and trauma doctor Jonasson:- Blomkvist frowned. He sat quietly for a long time. Asperger’s syndrome, he thought. Or something like that. A talent for seeing patterns and understanding abstract reasoning where other people perceive only white noise. (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo). “She has an extremely hard time relating to other people. I thought she had Asperger’s syndrome or something like it. If you read the clinical descriptions of patients diagnosed with Asperger’s, there are things that seem to fit Lisbeth very well, but there are just as many symptoms that don’t apply at all. Mind you, she’s not the least bit dangerous to people who leave her in peace and treat her with respect. But she is violent, without a doubt,” said Palmgren in a low voice. “If she’s provoked or threatened, she can strike back with appalling violence.” Blomkvist nodded. (The Girl who played with Fire). “For example, Asperger’s syndrome. Of course I haven’t done a psychiatric evaluation of her, but if I had spontaneously to hazard a guess, I would consider some form of autism. That would explain her inability to relate to social conventions.” (Jonasson) and “I have said that it is unusually difficult to make a precise evaluation of her condition. The patient is, as you know, almost autistic in her relation to doctors and other figures of authority. My assessment is that she suffers from a serious mental disorder, but that at the present time I cannot give an exact diagnosis. Nor can I determine what stage of the psychosis she is in without more extensive study.” (Teleborian) (The Girl who kicked the Hornets' Nest).

"In her mid-twenties, with extensive tattoos and piercings, bisexual, so anorexic-looking that she passes for 15, she is a computer hacker of genius and has the strength, stamina and social skills of an elk. Her sleuthing partner and occasional lover, the journalist Mikael Blomkvist, thinks she has Asperger’s syndrome." Stieg Larsson: Profile - Jake Kerridge celebrates the crime writer Stieg Larsson in The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/6167223/Stieg-Larsson-Profile.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.83.251 (talk) 17:13, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

A journalist is not a diagnostician. The diagnostician offers Asperger's as a possibility while noting that he has not evaluated her. Doczilla STOMP! 18:31, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Within the text of the books, psychiatrist Teleborian, advocate / guardian Palmgren and ER physician Jonasson (and journalist Blomkvist) all offer autism or Asperger syndrome in their discussions of Salander. By the end of the third book (and Larsson's death), Salander had never submitted to a complete assessment, but some of these discussions are submitted in evidence to her trial. The agreement of three professionals on autism / Asperger syndrome makes it highly probable that she has multiple traits consistent with a diagnosis on the spectrum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.107.199.88 (talk) 09:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Removed unreferenced entries

I had to remove the following entries because they are entirely unreferenced. Q0 17:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

  • "Scrubs" episode "My Roommates" features an autistic boy who is the son of Dr. Cox's high school friend Ron
  • "Cold Case" episode "Saving Sammy" features an autistic boy Brent, who wittnesses his parents murder.
  • "Boston Legal" episode "Helping Hands" features an eccentric attorney who is diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome
  • "The Dead Zone" episode "Heroes and Demons" features an autistic boy who sees everything in a fantasy context and has knowledge of Johnny Smith's powers
  • "Eureka"--Kevin, the son of Allison, is an autistic savant who used his impressive memory to recreate a complex equation on the sidewalk with a piece of chalk
  • "The Shield"--Vic Mackey has children with autism

Ok. Perhaps WP policy changed while I wasn't looking, but citing the name of a TV series and an episode title *is a citation*; citations need not be easy to get to, nor free, I understand policy to say, but merely clear and unambiguous. Citations to the dialogue of a TV script certainly ought to qualify, no?
--Baylink (talk) 00:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Amateur private investigator "Oscar Smuff" from the Hardy Boys book series?

The character Oscar Smuff, an amateur private investigator from the Hardy Boys series has demonstrated behaviors that are consistent with those of an autism spectrum individual. He is depicted as dressing oddly, "wearing a loud checkered suit and a soft felt hat." In The Hardy Boys: The Secret of the Old Mill, the author depicts Muff in the following way: Oscar Smuff, the Hardys knew, wanted to be a member of the Bayport Police Department. He had read many books on crime detection but, though he had tried hard, he was just not astute enough to do anything right. The boys had encountered him several times while working on their own cases. Usually Smuff's efforts at detection had proved more hindrance than help, and at times actually laughable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankNave (talk • contribs) 17:31, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Original research JDDJS (talk) 12:14, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

BBC Sherlock

There's an exchange between two characters in the episode "The Hounds of Baskerville" of the BBC series Sherlock that could be interpreted as indicating that the title character (at least this version of him) has Asperger syndrome:

Lestrade: He [Sherlock] seems to like having all the old faces back together, it's good for his... his...
John: Asperger's?

They're discussing how Lestrade has come out to join Sherlock and John in the remote village where they are investigating a case. -Guessing Game (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Way too ambiguous and indirect. I'd say no on including it. Sven Manguard Wha? 06:02, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
My thoughts, too. That's why I brought it here for discussion. -Guessing Game (talk) 22:32, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Inclusion of non-notable work

I removed several characters from non-notable works (which I defined as "works that don't currently have articles), but they were re-inserted by Guessing Game in this edit. I think his argument is valid, however I also think that there's a number of good reasons why, Wikipedia wide, only notable individuals (fictional or not) are included in these types of list. While the major issue, BLP concerns, doesn't come into play here as these are fictional characters, the secondary concern, that without some sort of limiter anyone could add in anything and the list would become dysfunctionally large, still comes into play. A few redlines isn't going to harm anything, but if we added in every fictional character with autism, so long as the autism could be cited, the list would be unreadable, and the impact diluted.

I'd like to get a third opinion on this. Sven Manguard Wha? 09:02, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that removing citable characters is an ideal way to keep the list from growing too long. I think this list should aim to present a broad picture of media portrayals of people on the autism spectrum, including both recent and historical works, as well as works from all over the world. I think that basing limitations on some sort of assessment of the notability of characters would negatively impact the diversity of the list. I foresee the film section favouring mainstream Hollywood films over independent and foreign films, for example. And how would the notability of a character be assessed? By how well known the actor or author behind the character is? By the importance of a character's role in the plot?
It could be argued that, since autism spectrum disorders are relatively uncommon, it's notable when a fictional character has one. Thus, as long as a work itself meets a standard of notability (inclusion on Wikipedia or IMDb, for example), I think that any autistic character featured in it merits inclusion on this list. The unseen character from the Australian cable-access programme that an anonymous editor has repeatedly tried to add to the article is an example of character from a non-notable work that does not merit inclusion.
An alternative way to manage the length of this list might be to branch it out into sub-lists, e.g., List of fictional characters on the autism spectrum in film. -Guessing Game (talk) 10:47, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Generally, my belief is that if the work is notable enough to have its own page on Wikipedia, then any character in the work is notable enough to appear here. If the work is not notable enough to have its own article, the character does not belong here. But I will let others chime in before I remove those. Smartyllama (talk) 19:13, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't think that a work's notability can be determined solely from whether or not it currently has its own Wikipedia article. Kimi ga oshiete kureta koto doesn't have an article on the English Wikipedia at the moment, but it does have one on the Japanese Wikipedia, and it's also listed on IMDb. The current lack of an article here seems less a matter of notability and more a matter of English Wikipedians not having gotten around to creating one yet. -Guessing Game (talk) 22:28, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
That seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. There is also one work listed here which has an article on the Dutch Wikipedia but not the English one. That might be OK too. The other works with no Wikipedia article are probably non-notable by themselves. One is also a sequel to a book with a WP article, and both books are listed. We could easily eliminate the second one from this article and just put a note that the character also appears in the sequel in that line. A couple works without articles have been made into films with their own Wikipedia article. Those are, and should be, listed under films and do not need to be listed under books as well. If someone wants to find out about the book, they can go to the film article.Smartyllama (talk) 00:09, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

removed from the list

I have removed several entries from the list because they are unsourced. Some of the entries are probably valid, but I still cannot include them because I don't know which are valid and which are original research. If anyone can find a way to reference the below entries, feel free to add the respective entries back to the list. The list includes the entire list at the time I cleaned it up - including about 7-10 that I did not delete. Q0 19:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

May I ask why Legion is on the list, as I have posted above proof that he qualifies thew list.Sith Lord 13 22:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Legion is on this list because, as I stated, the list I pasted here to the talk page includes the entire list at the time I did the cleanup, including the entries I did not delete from the article. Q0 09:02, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I didn't read it very carefully and thought that this was the list of people who either you took off or you felt shoule be taken off. (That should teach me not to open my mouth at 3o'clock in the morning.) Sith Lord 13 07:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I've removed Crake from Oryx and Crake from the list. The only suggestion that he's on the Autistic Spectrum comes from the fact that he attends a university nicknamed 'Asperger's U', and his behaviour towards the end of the novel is more strongly indicative of a major personality disorder. Sheogorath 149.254.183.30 (talk) 19:30, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Tommy?

I don't see Tommy specifically rejected here. Does this count as the artist specifying autism? “He was working on a metaphorical story device that put across the idea of different states of consciousness. The premise was that we had our five senses but were blind to Reality and Infinity. "There was a parallel within the shape of the autistic child," explained Townshend, "so the hero had to be deaf, dumb, and blind so that seen from our already limited point of view, his limitations would be symbolic of our own." Tommy seems to be commonly referred to as autistic and productions involving Townsend have been fundraisers for austism research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.13.59 (talk) 21:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

If Tommy is in the list, then I'm pulling it. The title character may be based on Autistic people, but has three types of conversion disorder. Sheogorath 149.254.183.30 (talk) 19:41, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Short stories?

Can Autistic characters from short stories be in the list even if the stories themselves only exist online? Sheogorath 149.254.183.30 (talk) 01:56, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

If it's got a reliable source that discusses the story, sure. This isn't TV Tropes, so you can't just list non-notable fan fiction. I suggest that you look for citations at Google News. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:40, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Trilogy?

How would you handle a character who appears in all three books of a trilogy, published over several years? I added Malcolm Decter from the WWW Trilogy and listed the year of the first book, but I'm wondering if we should list all three separately, list the trilogy as one entry but give a range of years, or leave it as is. Thoughts? Smartyllama (talk) 02:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

The easiest way to do it is to use a numeric range: 2009–2011. I added that to the article. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:46, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

List of 18 books

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/16/opinions/perry-kennedy-autism/index.html includes a slide show that lists 18 works featuring autistic characters in fiction. I'll list them here in the order they appear in the slide show.

Year Book Author Comments
2014 Rain Reign Ann M. Martin Book not mentioned in this WP article
1984 Inside Out Ann M. Martin Book not mentioned in this WP article
2002 A Corner of the Universe Ann M. Martin Book not mentioned in this WP article
2007 The London Eye Mystery Siobhan Dowd Book not mentioned in this WP article
2003 The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time Mark Haddon ok
2009 Anything by Typical Nora Raleigh Baskin Book not mentioned in this WP article
2004 Al Capone Does My Shirts Gennifer Choldenko ok
2006 Rules Cynthia Lord ok
2010 Mockingbird Kathryn Erskine ok
2011 Waiting for No One Beverley Brenna Author/book not on Wikipedia nor this WP article http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/b/beverley-brenna/waiting-for-no-one.htm
2001 Clay Colby Rodowsky Author/book not on Wikipedia nor this WP article http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/r/colby-rodowsky/clay.htm
2010 Delightfully Different D. S. Walker Author/book not on Wikipedia/fantasticfiction http://www.amazon.com/dp/1450260500/
2013 Remember Dippy Shirley Reva Vernick Author/book not on Wikipedia/fantasticfiction http://www.amazon.com/dp/1935955586/
2013 Screaming Quietly Evan Jacobs Author/book not on Wikipedia/fantasticfiction http://www.amazon.com/dp/1622500032/
2012 Colin Fischer Ashley Edward Miller; Zack Stentz Book not mentioned in this WP article
2010 The Half-Life of Planets Emily Franklin; Brendan Halpin Not on Wikipedia but mentioned in this WP article
2009 Marcelo in the Real World Francisco X. Stork ok
2006 Eye Contact Cammie McGovern ok

In the comments column I noted

  • "ok" if the book or author already has their own Wikipedia article and it is already listed in the List of fictional characters on the autism spectrum article.
  • Otherwise I noted if the book or author does not have its own WP article and/or is not listed in this article. I included the Fantastic Fiction links as that site has good coverage of fiction works that are listed on Amazon. If a work does not appear on Fantastic Fiction but is on Amazon then it's likely be a self published work. Fantastic Fiction includes links to Amazon making it easier to verify the books for purposes of inclusion in this article.

I did not update this article as I'm not familiar with any of the works listed and also it seems the inclusion process is subjective meaning new rows likely should get discussed on the talk page. --Marc Kupper|talk 16:41, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

The inclusion criteria, as I understand them, are there to prevent fan speculation and subjectivity. Though CNN article is an opinion piece, it's from a reliable source that was presumably fact-checked to make sure the author wasn't making up interpretations of the characters. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

That list contains one inaccuracy. Nowhere in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time is either Autistic Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome mentioned, and Nick Haddon has explicitly denied that Christopher Boone is on the Autistic Spectrum. I pulled the book from the main list on the basis that publisher's blurb isn't a good enough source if the author's saying otherwise. Sheogorath 149.254.51.216 (talk) 19:13, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

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Possible characters to add

  • Spock —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.55.254.42 (talk) 18:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Characters must be explicitly identified as on the autistic spectrum either in the work of fiction or by the author in order to added to the list. Q0 (talk) 01:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I guess that means Benjy Compson from The Sound and the Fury is a no-go, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.73.202.17 (talk) 04:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

- All incarnations of Sherlock Holmes such as Jonny Lee Miller's portrayal in Elementary (2012-) [3] who displays characteristics of Autism. Also Gregory House of House MD (2004-2012) [4] who shows some characteristics as well. It is possible the character of Sherlock Holmes himself has autism since most portrayals of him have autistic traits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.53.144 (talk) 10:40, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

Needs more pruning

I noticed this list contains some characters that a few people interpret as autistic, but are not officially confirmed to be so. I think we should either prune this down to characters that were intentionally written as autistic or split this into a list of fictional characters on the autism spectrum and a list of fictional characters speculated to be on the autism spectrum. TheDracologist (talk) 20:20, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

The video game sub-list in particular is a huge mess with citations to one game journalist saying the character is autistic despite there being no statements in the source material or by any of the game's creators to back up these claims. I think I'll cut the ones with no statements in the material or by a creator and hold them in a list I'll make below so we can discuss each one if there's anyone objects to their removal. TheDracologist (talk) 21:18, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

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Symmetra

Symmetra's inclusion on this list seems to be based on a piece of her internal monologue, specifically the quote "Sanjay has always said I was... different. Everyone has, asking where I fit on the spectrum.". However, within the context of the comic, it seems to be simply her reflecting on her different approach to hard-light manipulation and how she didn't fit in with the other students learning to become hard-light architects. Because she has been working with light for most of her life, her framing her thoughts in terms of light-based analogies doesn't seem too far-fetched. I think we should wait for a more conclusive statement before including her on this list. TheDracologist (talk) 04:57, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Interpreting a primary source would be original research, so you're probably right. The list needs a bit of a cleaning, anyway. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:45, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
I'm going to remove her from the list for the time being. If a more conclusive statement is found, we can add her back in. TheDracologist (talk) 04:18, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
On Twitter the writer of the comic more or less confirmed that he was referring to Autism Spectrum Disorder(ASD) in A Better World.[5] Provided there are no objections I will go ahead and re-add Symmetra with an updated citation Swarthygarfield (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2016 (UTC).
Yep! The Twitter conversation can be summarized as a fan saying "Thanks for writing Symmetra as having an ASD!" and the writer saying "You're welcome!". I had also gotten the impression that Symmetra was autistic from the comic, but people are often far too eager to read into things when it comes to things like representation of various groups, so I always take these things with a grain of salt. Now that some writer confirmation has been found, I'm happy to have her on the list.
PS: When I first saw that Symmetra had been re-added, there was a brief moment of exasperation where I thought it was just a revert. trout Self-trout TheDracologist (talk) 22:33, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Verifying Citations

I have gone through every citation on this and I have tried to fix as many as I could. There are some that I could not verify. Primarily the non-english sources.

Beyond that the citations I am the most worried about are the television shows with a citation to tv.com. As far as I can tell it's a website that focuses on user generated content and such I feel it may not be the best source. I will begin working on finding replacement sources for those shows.

I feel we are almost done cleaning up the citations. We just need one final push.

Swarthygarfield (talk) 04:12, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Stated by author

If we remove this simple clause from the page we cut a lot of the red tape tying our hands, and allowing us to add in persons who have been deemed, by experts, to be autistic, instead of just thoes who were statated to be so by authors. Sith Lord 13 22:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not just the assertion on the article, it is also Wikipedia policy that is holding the "red tape". About a year ago, the article was nominated for deletion because people have been using the article for speculation. Then it was nominated again yesterday for the same reason. If you insist on adding speculation to this list, I'm sure it will only encourge more deletion nominations. If you want an article about fictional characters speculated to have been autistic by experts, then you should make a new article for that. Real confirmed autistic people and real speculated autistic people are divided into separate articles, so if you want separate articles for speculated fictional characters, you would need to create a new article for that. Q0 09:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Sith Lord 13 to some extent. Dropping the "stated by author" requirement wouldn't avoid any red tape, as all entries must still be verifiable and referenced. However I don't see any reason that fictional characters who have been identified as autistic by academics, for instance, couldn't be included. If an English literature/psychology professor publishes a peer reviewed paper hypothesizing that Captain Ahab was an autistic savant I'd be happy for that information to be included on this page. Pburka 23:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Unless you can find any peer reviewed paper hypothesising that a character was autistic I don't think there is much to discuss. If someone does have some examples then I may favour a seperate section (we can't drop the "stated by author" completely, it is the only thing which really causes any current additions to be worthwhile) on characters speculated as autistic by experts, but until then I think it should be kept as it is. Raoul 15:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I think if we are going to include fictional characters that were speculated to have been autistic by people other than the authors (but where the speculation is referenced) then I think it should be done in separate articles, like the way list of autistic people and people speculated to have been autistic are in separate articles. This article has been nominated for deletion twice because some editors have been adding unreferenced entries. Adding speculative entries to this list will likely encourage more deletion nominations. Q0 15:55, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Just a question.From when the othors are "experts"?They can very easaly have reeten ther script wrong,it stil fiction.We schouldn't just stick to what the othor says.I beleave that the opinion of an expert has more wait in this.We could begin speculating if the othors wear misimformed or not on the isue.I mean the othors pov is not more corect then the pov from any average person,since is about diagnosis corectness that is about here.--Pixel ;-) 23:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
It's spelt "author". Characters are what the author defines them as being. The character may not really seem autistic or they may actually behave like someone with a different mental disorder (or indivuals who are differently neurologically atypical), but imo they are still autistic if that is how the author ment to write it. You can't really diagnose someone from a description in a book, but you can write a description in a book on the basis that the character has the condition. Raoul 18:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
If there are references that say that people have criticized a work on the basis that a character identified as autistic did not behave as an autistic person in the work, or if people feel that autism was in some way not portrayed correctly, then it can be stated in the article that some people criticized the work for labeling a character as autistic. Q0 18:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes,but still,the author,is not suposed to now on the isue more then you.It's not about science fiction here,the label autistic is suposed to be a corect one.I don't see why the authors opinion is somewhat special,he's god only in his work,not in the real world.i just read the little intro.The title is clearly generic,and the intro declares that is only about the authors description.That's a nice example of the kind of internal contradiction that i'm coumplaining about.--Pixel ;-) 21:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok,i had a look on the sisters articles of this one.I see that you try too make a parralel betwen diagnosed real peopol,and fictional peopol,"diagnosed" by ther authors,since a real diagnosis by a real expert is not posible.Still i'm not in favor of "the author is god in his world,so he's write" or something like that.I had in mind something like,the experts have a consencus (article on peopol/fictional that have it) vs the experts have no consensus (article on peopol/fictional that are speculated to have it).If you presented like that,the deletionists have no case.--Pixel ;-) 22:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I found this an interensing website. I remember a mystery novel where a teenager, probably a girl, in an institution was thought to have Aspergers. I didn't see anything like it in the short list of literature. If characters are described by the author or in reliable and verifiable independent sources, such as journal articles, published book reviews, or textbooks of psychology, then it is simple to add an inline citation. Otherwise adding characters because an editor thinks they seem autistic is pure original research, and sets the whole article up for deletion. Find a psychologist who published an article in a refereed journal or in a book from a university press or a major publisher where he says Sherlock Holmes, or Einstein, or anyone else was autistic and you have a leg to stand on. If it is a self-published self-help book, or someone's blog or website, don't bother. Regards. Edison 00:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps a list for characters speculated to be autistic would be a good place for that. There may be some value in documenting significant interpretations that aren't confirmed by the author, sort of like the lists of historical figures speculated to be autistic. TheDracologist (talk) 09:06, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Spinnoff / Semi-Split

Perhaps we should create a list for all of those characters that were speculated to be autistic that pop up here now and again and give this a name indicating it's for confirmed autistic characters. Maybe List of speculated autistic fictional characters and List of confirmed autistic fictional characters? I'm a little worried about WP:FORK here, but when we throw the two together, things tend to get ugly and bloated if the page history is any indication. TheDracologist (talk) 08:41, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Going through the talk history, the idea of a rename doesn't look controversial, so I'll go ahead and do that, then start the other list to catch the (hopefully notable) speculation in draftspace. At best, we get an informative list about character interpretation and at worst it becomes a cesspool containing things that would otherwise cause edit wars here until it gets deleted. TheDracologist (talk) 09:00, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Ugh, I think I fixed the cut-and-paste move. There wasn't any real history at the target pages, so I just moved this over them. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:12, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Sorry about that. I'm new here and didn't know how to do it properly. I didn't mean to do any harm; I just didn't know better, but now that you've explained it on my talk page, I know how to do better in the future. TheDracologist (talk) 04:26, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Well, that's one nice thing about Wikipedia: even if you make a mistake, it's easy to fix. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 09:37, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
I didn't understand the reason to rename the article: "List of autistic fictional characters" excludes high-functioning autism and Asperger syndrome, while "List of fictional characters on the autism spectrum" includes/d all three diseases. --Mauro Lanari (talk) 11:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Does it? I could have sworn autistic can be used to describe anyone on the spectrum. I changed it for brevity because "List of fictional characters on the autism spectrum" is unwieldy. TheDracologist (talk) 19:25, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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Forrest Gump is autistic, not AS

I wouldn't say Forrest Gump has "full blown Asperger Syndrome", merely that he is autistic (specifically an autistic savant), because I have Asperger Syndrome, yet am nothing like Gump. 142.26.133.248 (talk) 20:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I would be inclined to agree. He is specified as having some form of middle functioning or high functioning atypical autism. If he has severe Asperger's, it's very atypical. The book version was written to be very historically correct and in the time period the use of Aspergers' as a catch all for atypical autism was quite common so anything in the book itself referring to diagnosis has to be taken in that context, as opposed to what the writer might have said. The inability of others to provide assistance with his condition likely caused him to be lower functioning and resulted in lower intelligence utilization. This is also historically accurate. This gets in the way of a proper diagnosis as well. --Robert Wm "Ruedii" (talk) 04:17, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

What about Bob?

Bob from the movie What about Bob?; he has something! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lea the Firebender (talk • contribs) 04:34, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it ever precisely says Bob's disorder. However, his primary disorder some form of atypical OCD or other Anxiety Disorder. It never says what his disorder is, or if the rather terrible psychiatrist he inadvertently torments in the movie ever could categorize it. However, as the movie is written it's unspecified neurosis level multiple psychiatric disorder. It doesn't go into any further details. (Over-analysis of movies is one of my favorite pastimes.)--Robert Wm "Ruedii" (talk) 05:26, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Ghost in the Shell

I just started reading the original Ghost in the Shell manga (only knowing the movie so far), and autism is used as a term within this book. Some research has led me to the page of [[9]] which clearly mentions autism by name, and uses a relatively good description. Having only read two chapters, I cannot yet point in a direction of any specific autistic character at this moment, but the fact that autism is clearly mentioned and described in a notable medium of popular culture would fit well on this page. I would like to know if anyone knows more about officially stated autism with any specific character within this book/series. When I know more myself, I'll add (or not add, depending on the information) it myself. Cyanid (talk) 18:27, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I´d like to add that in the GITS SAC Series the Episode 11 features a facility of autistic (as in diagnosed, not in the figurative meaning of "cyberbrain in autistic mode") kids were exploided in the IT-Security field inside a facility disguised as a mental health facility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ghost_in_the_Shell:_Stand_Alone_Complex_episodes Unfortunately the Synopsis does not go into that detail.(Anon)

It is debatable whether closed shell syndrome is a form of psychiatric autism or not. This page referring to psychiatric autistic disorders, not other ones. Without more detail from the writers it can't be clear. However, a main character from GITS:SAC. Aoi (a.k.a. Laughing Man), has mild closed shell syndrome but is a functioning case who has found a place in society digitizing paper documents.--Robert Wm "Ruedii" (talk) 05:32, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Deadpool? Wat?

I just noticed that Deadpool has appeared on the list. Why exactly? With Legion I know that it's clearly stated he's on the spectrum even though he doesn't really show any symptoms, but with Deadpool I don't see anything about it on Wikipedia or Marvel Wiki. Just curious but where is it mentioned?80.62.117.247 (talk) 21:14, 27 June 2015 (UTC)Silas112

Seems unlikely to me. I guess someone could track down issue #1 and see if it's mentioned. Or maybe we could ask WikiProject Comics. I'll try to remember to do a few Google searches to see what comes up. I'm thinking this is probably a hoax, but who knows. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Deadpool has an uncanny resemblance to some people with atypical Aspergers' that I know, as does Spiderman. (Spiderman is far less atypical). A very large number of Marvel Comic characters that resemble having high functioning autism varieties. However, it is difficult to know for sure, hence we should follow the standard of it either being directly confirmed by a major author, or declared in one of the main universes (e.g. Marvel Comics universe, Marvel Ultimate Universe, Marvel Cinimatic Universe, Marvel Animated Universe, Marvel Ultimate Animated Universe, etc.) not a minor Universe barely mentioned, or side-story universes (e.g. Earth-25/Earth-8311 "Larval Universe", Earth-2149 "Marvel Zombies")--Robert Wm "Ruedii" (talk) 06:49, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

List cleanup log

I'm going to list characters I'm removing or am unsure about here so we can resolve any disputes around my attempts to clean this up a bit. Feel free to discuss and add to either of these lists. TheDracologist (talk) 22:32, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Removed

Video games

Year Character Video game Notes Reason
2012 Patricia Tannis[6] Borderlands 2 This one has no official statements in the game or by the game developers stating she is autistic.
2016 Plastic[7] Mirror's Edge Catalyst The first mission in which she appears is called "Savant Extraordinaire". The only times I can find her name mentioned in conjunction with autism are a few forum discussions, the article cited, and a Tumblr blog dedicated to fan theories. It appears the reviewer's interpretation sparked some brief discussion among fans of the game, but it's ultimately the interpretation of a tiny minority.

Needs More Investigation

Film

Year Character(s) Actor(s) Film Comment
1969

Philip Ransome [8]

Mark Lester Run Wild, Run Free Does it say in the film that the reason for Phillip's muteness is an ASD? I can't find a statement from anyone involved in its creation about it.

Television

Character Actor(s) Episode(s) Series Comment
Sherlock Holmes[9] Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock I see a lot of dispute about this one, but I can't find anything official. Is there any confirmation in the series?

References from the page entries

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_characters_on_the_autism_spectrum#Comics
  2. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_(Marvel_Comics)
  3. ^ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2191671/
  4. ^ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412142/?ref_=nv_sr_2
  5. ^ https://twitter.com/Ardrous1/status/731213601185226752
  6. ^ Jordan Erica Webber. "Patricia Tannis, Asperger, and Me" (PDF). Five Out of Ten. Retrieved 17 August 2013. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
  7. ^ "Mirror's Edge Catalyst Review: EA DICE's graceful action adventure suffers from a case of the Ubisofts". International Business Times. Retrieved 16 June 2016. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
  8. ^ Movies Featuring ASD Autism Research Institute
  9. ^ http://globalcomment.com/bbcs-sherlock-asperger%E2%80%99s-syndrome-and-sociopathy/
I don't have time to go over the entire list right now. These are just a few that I found on the initial skim. TheDracologist (talk) 22:34, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Apparently someone didn't play the side-quests in Borderlands 2. It's mentioned right in one of the primary side-quests, the one where you fetch Tannis' diary entries about moving to Sanctuary. It also mentions her far from acute social phobia. If you wanted someone characters who have symptoms but developers have not given definitive answers, you have Tina, Torque, Gaige, Hammerlock, Scooter, Ellie, Zed, and a whole lot of other characters. Tannis is about the only character who's actually given a diagnosis. --Robert Wm "Ruedii" (talk) 07:14, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Rick Sanchez

The consensus is to exclude Rick Sanchez from the page.

Cunard (talk) 02:04, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, I've edited Rick Sanchez into this list twice now (with citations) and had it deleted. I'll leave it off for now, but the explanation for deletion was that "it's a passing joke and not meant to be serious". That said-- the fandom seems to be split on his identity. It is considered canon on some fan wikis but ignored on others. Many of these characters' identities are more speculative and more likely to be jokes than Sanchez's. Creator Dan Harmon is a fan of the game Minecraft which the character was supposedly making fun of, and has described himself as autistic (citation available)

MORE IMPORTANTLY--- If we consider one episode to be insufficient evidence, why is it mentioned on the Rick Sanchez wikipedia page, but not the list of autistic characters? Thoughts welcome.

132.198.99.255 (talk) 18:50, 5 October 2017 (UTC)Mary Laidlaw

It's not on the Rick Sanchez page or this page because it was just a passing joke in a single episode and not an actual plot point. JDDJS (talk) 23:27, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Proof that it’s a joke? Ukodebin (talk) 02:00, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Again, the creator of the show, still very much involved in production, Dan Harmon has Aspergers syndrome himself, [1] and has previously created an autistic character (see the "Community" entry in this same article) based on his experience. It is definitely not out of the question that Rick is Autistic. Superotter24 (talk) 06:15, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

RFC

Should Rick Sanchez be included on this page? Whether to include him is based on a comment he made in an episode where he asks if a video game is popular with people who are autistic because he is loving it. JDDJS (talk) 17:17, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Oppose It's a passing comment, and it's only implied, not explicitly said. If it comes up more times throughout the series, then maybe he should be included, but as of now, it's not relevant to be included. JDDJS (talk) 17:20, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose Per JDDJS, unless there are reliable sources describing Rick as autistic. Maybe next season there will be more on this, but for now it's not nearly as obvious as it was for Abed. --Cerebellum (talk) 22:22, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. The statement is too vague and could be a throwaway gag in-character. If people can turn up decent secondary sources saying it indicates Rick is autistic, perhaps we could use those, but one Mashable ref doesn't seem like enough. The other bits of evidence that people mentioned are WP:SYNTH if we rely on them ourselves. I'd suggest digging up better secondary sources discussing it and citing it to those; if those can't be found, he shouldn't be included. --Aquillion (talk) 05:35, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose- per obvious WP:OR. just ignore my vote when and if anyone finds a few secondary reliable source for the claim to satisfy NOR and WP:DUE. Darwinian Ape talk 22:14, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Philip K. Dick's Martian Time-Slip

Manfred Steiner, in Martian Time-Slip, is very possibly the first character in literature to be described as autistic. The novel was published in 1964, and should certainly be in this list. This isn't speculative. The novel explicitly refers to Manfred, repeatedly, as an autistic child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.58.210.121 (talk) 22:10, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Niles Crane?

  • Dr. Niles Crane from Frasier may be on the spectrum. I think this because in comparison to his brother Frasier, who was heavily bullied growing up just like him, he is still way more awkward when not on-the-job as a psychiatrist. He's also an extremely picky eater. I've never heard the writers' take on this, so I know I could be wrong here.(Orange Bookmark (talk) 14:39, 3 June 2020 (UTC))
You'd need a source for that. Dbrodbeck (talk) 16:44, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Television section

Why is the television section in alphabetical order, rather than year of introduction like the rest of the list?--ｖａｐｏｒｇａｚｅ💬 (please ping on reply) 09:36, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Could someone add "Dinosaur Train" to this list. - User:Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.204.202 (talk) 14:56, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Would you say that Peridot is an autistic character?

So, there has been a lot of chatter about this online. I know that storyboarder Maya Peterson (the same one who said Peri is asexual and aromatic), said she doesn’t[2] interpret Peridot as autistic, but Rebecca Sugar, the creator of Steven Universe, where is a character,[3] said:

I don't consider Peridot or any of the Gems on the show for that matter, to be neurotypical --that is to say, most Gems don't think, perceive or behave in ways considered to be 'normal' by the general population, so I think it makes perfect sense that Peridot would be relatable to neurodiverse and autistic members of our audience.

Additionally, Shelby Rabara, the voice of Peridot, believes like Peterson, but says that[4] people told her at fan events that:

I’m on the spectrum and Peridots really helped me when I have an outburst or when I’m having these feelings and I don’t know how to get them out.’ I’m happy that I can voice a character that gives people on the spectrum somebody to identify with.

I was thinking of adding her, with articles like this[5] as an example of those who think she is autistic. What do you all think? Peridot has never been confirmed as an autistic character, but some evidence points to the fact she may be an autistic character. --Historyday01 (talk) 23:43, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.vulture.com/2011/09/community-dan-harmon-wired-aspergers-abed.html
  2. ^ https://twitter.com/rr_tweet/status/1237684714044968962
  3. ^ https://www.cbr.com/steven-universe-neurodivernt-crystal-gems/
  4. ^ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-steven-universe-team-on-the-characters-evolutions/
  5. ^ https://www.nerdscribbles.com/character-analysis-peridot-autism/
The creator has to confirm that the character is autistic. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:33, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
@NinjaRobotPirate, ok, good to know. Maybe we should have a section on "background" like the List of fictional bisexual characters or List of fictional lesbian characters pages, to give two examples I can think off the top of my head. Perhaps adapting the text in the "Media Portayals" section of the "Societal and cultural aspects of autism" page, or anything from the Autism spectrum disorders in the media page, like the "Intro" and "Fiction" sections. In any case, I'll do some searches and see if I can find any other characters, and/or improve existing sources.Historyday01 (talk) 00:47, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Sheldon Cooper

I added Sheldon Cooper to the list of TV characters with Asperger Syndrome. My contribution was removed. I presume it was removed on the grounds that Sheldon Cooper hasn't been formally diagnosed with autism on the show. However I disagree with the person who removed him. I said, in my description that the writers denied his having asperger's but fans and reviewers believe he has it, so I did not misrepresent anything.

Anyway, I would like to discuss this with everyone. If most people agree with me and just the one person disagrees, I am going to put Sheldon back into the list. But if several people think he should be excluded, then I'll go with the consensus. Please discuss.

P.S. This is what I wrote:

  • Dr. Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory. Although the show's writers have denied that Sheldon has Asperger's Syndrome, many fans and reviewers believe Dr. Cooper's quirky personality would easily fit this diagnosis. Sheldon has trouble reading facial expressions, is highly gifted, does not like physical contact with others and has many compulsive routines and rituals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maurajbo (talk • contribs) 13:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
you'll need a source to list the character. Dbrodbeck (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
If you can find a source talking about speculation that he has AS, I would have no problem with it being listed. Just the denial isn't good enough. If you asked Disney if Mary Poppins had Asperger's, they'd deny it too. Smartyllama (talk) 21:01, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for the feedback. I'll cite one of the articles where they talk about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maurajbo (talk • contribs) 02:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Sheldon, had (also if exaggerated) characteristic of Asperger's or high-functional autism, it was not intentional by authors, but yes, Sheldon comply on behavion of Asperger's Syndrome or High-functional autism person --62.240.135.33 (talk) 19:18, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

I added Sheldon back in with citations and thought we were OK and then Doczilla removed him again. What I have trouble with is that Sheldon is sort of a symbol of Asperger Syndrome to those in the Aspie community, so it just feels wrong that he should be excluded from this list. I completely understand why you are reluctant to put in characters that have not been identified as autistic by the authors, because you don't want random people just putting their opinions into the wiki, but I think in a case where a character has CONSISTENTLY been identified as autistic by a multitude of fans, reviewers and even psychiatrists that person should be included. I would be happy to add more citations or to link to quotes from the writers of the Big Bang Theory where the writers admit Sheldon has autistic traits, but say that they don't want the responsibility of formally identifying him as autistic.

If they have not identified him as such, then it does not get included. It matters precious little what fans think. Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:14, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Inclusion on this list requires (1) valid external sources AND (2) clear identification within the fiction itself. As long as lacks the diagnosis within the fiction, he does not belong on this particular list. Without those criteria, this list would devolve into a mess of speculation. Doczilla STOMP! 18:11, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Jim Parson himself has stated that he believes the character of Sheldon has autism and portrays him as such but the show-runners have denied this when asked if his character is written as autistic. [1]

And in fact, Bill Prady is on record -- more than once, I think, as saying exactly that: he's not a psychologist; it's not his place to make the distinction. https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=bill+prady+sheldon+aspergers
For my part, I'm a little disappointed that we've taken the *explicit* "Do not add Sheldon to this list" comment out of the HTML head comment on the page; I thought it added a nice little bit of flavor to WP.  :-)
--Baylink (talk) 00:41, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Noting Autistic Creators?

I noticed that the entry for Denise in On the Edge of Gone includes the note "Author Corinne Duyvis is autistic herself." Should it be the standard practice on this page to note if the creator is autistic? If so, I'd add notes about creators such as Helen Hoang and Dan Harmon. This is useful information in the context of OwnVoices, but I want to check that it's relevant to this page first. InEventOf (talk) 21:38, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I think you could note they are autistic, but add it as a note, using Template:Notelist. What do other editors of this page think? Historyday01 (talk) 22:17, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Update @[[InEventOf, its totally ok if you add that an author is autistic, just provide a reliable source showing Duyvis is autistic. I say this after some recent updates to the page.--Historyday01 (talk) 20:42, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

movie reviews as sources?

There are a few characters whose primary source is a review of the movie, as opposed to the movie itself or statements made by the makers. The ones I found are

I can't say I'm too keen on this because - in my experience - sometimes people are a bit too quick to label a character as autistic when there is no evidence to back this up. I know that it's a bit silly to be bringing this up because I think it'd be difficult to find anyone who disagrees with the assessment that both these characters are autistic, but are these movie reviews acceptable sources for determining whether a character is autistic or not? TheZoodles (talk) 15:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

TheZoodles, I think movie reviews can be acceptable, but only if the movie review sites are reliable sources. I would say that statements by the makers and from the films themselves are preferred. Historyday01 (talk) 17:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
@Historyday01: That's a good point! Still, it does not sit well with me. Even if the review website is reliable in and of itself, at the end of the day, it remains just a random person labeling a character as autistic and I find it hard to accept that as a good source for the purposes of this page.TheZoodles (talk) 11:50, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Exactly. I think if a review website is used as a secondary source, that's fine, but it shouldn't be used as a primary source for a character being autistic. --Historyday01 (talk) 12:49, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Kamille Bidan?

I'd like to discuss this because another editor tried to add this character and I removed it based on what I have found in my research. Kamille Bidan is a major character in the series Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam and Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ . There is one point where he says "I'm just an autistic child" (Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, episode 9, between the 9 and 10 minute mark). I have been told that in that era (late 80s), autism in Japanese was often misused to mean something along the lines of asocial, neurotic, introverted, etc. - and my guess is that that's the case here, especially considering the historical context. Autism is name-dropped exactly once and then never mentioned again, and the character is low-support in an era where every autistic character had high support needs and autism was their sole character trait. The dub also translates it as "I'm just a neurotic child." I'm posting here because I'd like another set of eyes on the issue because it seems like a significant part of the fandom does agree that this is a case of canonical autism - counterpoints include that the original Japanese statement is in fact meant literally and that the dub is not reliable (which is a fair point considering anime dubs as a whole, but I find it odd that they would not just translate autism as autism), and that he does show a lot of autistic traits (which is also a fair point by modern standards but I doubt the writers in the 80s wrote him as what they understood autism was). TheZoodles (talk) 17:34, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Murky from Pathologic 2

Would it be acceptable to include her? The game's tie in artbook states she is on the autism spectrum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:BCE0:893:90D1:670:2DDB:8344 (talk) 06:37, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Drive (2011)

I think Ryan goslings character in Drive (2011) is autistic 92.18.242.188 (talk) 22:27, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you or I think. We need reliable sources. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 14:32, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Sheesh my guy, I was just saying. No need to get so defensive about it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.41.28.139 (talk) 15:47, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Notability of one-time characters in series?

A fairly common kind of autistic character is one that appears in a single episode of a series that has a "Problem of the Week" format (ensemble cast facing new problems each episode, think Grey's Anatomy, Law and Order, X-files)

Discussions a bit higher up on this talk page seem to have landed on a "if the series has a Wikipedia page, then any character therein is notable enough to be included on this list" as a notability guideline.

The thing is that there are dozens of these kinds of characters. There are a few included already but I've found about 3 dozen more that all would qualify for inclusion based on the criterium of "they're from a series that has a Wikipedia page". This would expand the current television section by about 50% which is pretty significant and seems like it'd merit another discussion about how notable a character has to be in order to be included (also keeping in mind that the list as a whole is getting pretty long). Another issue with these kinds of characters is that there's very little documentation outside of the episode itself (very little interviews and such because they only appear once and often don't factor into any major story arcs) and I'm not entirely sure what y'all's guidelines are on using just the episodes themselves as citation.

TheZoodles (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

That is a fair point. I think the list should be limited to recurring characters so as to limit the list's scope, so it doesn't get too far out of control, if that makes sense. Historyday01 (talk) 21:33, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

daisy ewing-student

I honestly like this list of autistic fictional characters just how it is, i think its super cool and super interesting. 134.29.233.142 (talk) 18:24, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

daisy ewing-student

looking at this page made me want to spend the rest of the night watching these movies lol. the Molly one sounds super inmteresting and i really enjoyed reading on the Snow Cake one, it sounds super sad but also intersting. 134.29.233.142 (talk) 18:27, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Moon Knight - is "a bit" good enough?

I tried looking for the original interviews with Oscar Isaac because there's a whole lot of websites just repeating each other and jumping to conclusions. The interviews that mention autism are these:

https://www.thewrap.com/moon-knight-premiere-oscar-isaac-interview-video/ ("making him maybe slightly on the spectrum")

https://collider.com/moon-knight-oscar-isaac-may-calamawy-interview/ ("you know, I saw him as a bit on the spectrum")

To me, these are not definitive enough to confirm the character as autistic ("maybe", "slightly", "a bit"), but I'd like to hear what other people think about it. TheZoodles (talk) 08:49, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

If you have to ask if it's good enough, it's not good enough. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:17, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
That is fair. I wanted to double-check because I've been told I am too strict with my source requirements (in other circles that discuss autistic characters, not Wikipedia) TheZoodles (talk) 11:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Run Wild, Run Free

are there better sources for Run Wild, Run Free? the current source is dead and not of particularly high quality anyway (it lists some other characters that are not provably autistic such as Forrest Gump and Arnie Grape). normally I'd just remove an entry like that but given that it's one of the oldest characters and a movie that is so very much thought of as "an autism movie", I figure it's worth doing a little more of a deep dig into how exactly this character is labeled. Its age does make it more difficult to figure this out, both because sources are difficult to find and because it's an age where "autistic" might not have necessarily referred to what we now understand as ASD.

  • What remains of the pressbook makes no mention of autism. It uses "unable to speak", "emotionally repressed"
  • The only mentions of autism I can find are from reviews and other people who are not involved with making the movie ([10], [11])
  • Nothing I could find in the newspaper section of archive.org explicitly supports the notion that Philip is autistic

TheZoodles (talk) 14:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Adding characters from a podcast?

Would they go under "Television" because it is episodic media, or does that require a separate category? F.lorui (talk) 21:29, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

It may be better to consolidate the more niche media forms (like podcasts, or the extant Toys section with just one entry) into a general "Other" section. However, do make sure that the podcast you're wanting to add is notable enough (previous consensus seems to be that the work the character appears in should have a Wikipedia page, though this is not enforced very strictly) TheZoodles (talk) 08:35, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I'll merge them into "Other".
The podcast itself does have a Wikipedia page.
Thanks for the reply! F.lorui (talk) 10:54, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
  1. ^ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898266/trivia?item=tr1312779
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