Talk:Nights in Rodanthe (novel)

Nights in Rodanthe (novel) was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 29, 2009	Good article nominee	Not listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on December 1, 2008.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the names of the two main characters of Nicholas Sparks' 2002 novel Nights in Rodanthe are a Christmas present to his in-laws?

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Prose[edit]

I began with the intention to review this article for GA. However, the prose was so bad that it needed serious copyediting and rewriting. I abandoned the article after the first two sentences of the Plot. I suggest that the main editor concentrate on the constant shifting of tenses from one sentence to another, and discontinues trying to write complex sentences with dangling modifers. If I see some progress within the next 24 hours, I will attempt a second reading. If not, I will place a 7-day hold on the GA review. If I had elected to review this article after my first attempt to read it, I would have failed it due to its poor prose. JiggleJog (talk) 19:09, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(2) It seems as if the primary problem in the beginning of this article is the Plot: It opens in 2002 with Adrienne relating a flashback to her daughter, Amanda. (Thus the writer [of the article] has elected to write in "present tense".) However, because Adrienne narrates a story about events in 1998, it becomes necessary to relay some of those events in the "past tense". Yet the primary focus of the subsection named Plot seems to be entirely those events in 1998, and not the principal, present-tense storyline which began with Adrienne and Amanda. This is easily seen by the confusion which is caused by the article-writer's difficulty in handling Nights in Rodanthe's two storylines. According to the writer, the story of Nights in Rodanthe ends with the parting of Adrienne and Paul. However, what has happened to the storyline of Adrienne and Amanda? What denouement belongs to their relationship? Why is Amanda told THE STORY in the first place? Why does Nicholas Sparks bother with their relationship? Why not merely tell the story of Adrienne and Paul without using the technique of the flashback? Something is seriously wrong here with the article's subsection named Plot.

I believe that the article's writer needs to reevalute what Nights in Rodanthe is all about. At a minimum, the writer needs to address the issue of why Amanda was introduced, and what relevance she is to the story. Hopefully, Nicholas Sparks put all of this in the proper perspective. If not, then Nights in Rodanthe would be fodder for the critics.

I am currently asking myself why is Nights in Rodanthe notable and worthy of Wikipedia's governing criteria?--JiggleJog (talk) 14:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jiggle. Thanks for taking time in reviewing the article. The truth why I'm having trouble in presenting the plot section is that I haven't read the novel. I just relied on online synopsis. As for the significance of Amanda, she is battling with depression due to her husband's death. Her mother, Adrienne, comes in to relate her own love story that constitutes Nights in Rodanthe. I suggest you remove the maintenance tag because if that's the case, you should have failed the article or someone will quick fail it. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 05:19, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Efe, I am sorry to hear that you have not read the novel. Perhaps you and the other editors should discuss this. I believe that Nights in Rodanthe needs to be addressed from a much greater depth than I am seeing right now.

I had hoped that an extension of 14-days would have allowed you time to digest the problems, to make necessary corrections, and to bring the article into the area of the criteria for being a GA candidate.

Since you have not read the novel, an extension of 14-days may not be appropriate.

While I await your decision on whether or not you think that you can make improvements, I will concentrate on specific suggestions on how to proceed. I will then insert my review if you decide that you can not work within that 14-day period.

As to the copyediting template..., try seeking assistance from time to time from a volunteer copyeditor. There are just too many, minor grammatical problems which have been overlooked; these should be handled easily though by a good copyeditor. --JiggleJog (talk) 15:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No problems with the copy editing. I have a good friend of mine who helped me copy edit my other novel-related GA. For now, give me your other concerns other than copy editing. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 11:13, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment, my primary concern is notability. Although Nights in Rodanthe made a "best seller list", this is hardly a good reason for it to be included in an encyclopedia (incidentally, we do not know which, where, or what about that list; "...on all every national list" is even poor grammar.). If that were the case, then Wikipedia's two million articles would be quadrupled within a year. There is a need for a greater reason for why Nights would stick out on a shelf filled with competition such as Moby Dick, Withering Heights, War of the Worlds, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and so on. This is not to say, that Nights needs to be a classic before it is inserted in Wikipedia; it is just to say that there is a need for something extraordinary about Nights which places it in the category of being noteworthy. The fact that it is/was a tear-jerking, hand-wrenching romance in the genre of harlequin romances (similar to Bridges Over Madison County) really does not cut much ice unless there is more to the hand-wrenching than the average tear-jerker. Gone With the Wind, The Kiss of the Spider Woman,...these tell a good story. But what does Nights in Rodanthe tell us. After reading through the Plot, I really feel let down, disappointed, cheated; there really does not seem to be much there: a man and a woman meet in an inn, have a love affair, depart to their separate lives, and...in the end, one dies.... Somehow I think that there must be...much much more to Nights in Rodanthe than your article is giving me. I really believe that you need to read the book before you can write about it meaningfully. For example, why on earth does Nicholas Sparks tell his story in a flashback? I would be willing to contend that Nights in Rodanthe is not about Adrienne and Paul. It is about Adrienne and Amanda.--JiggleJog (talk) 12:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have decided to withdraw the nomination. This is giving me headache, and for the first, frustrating. And for the notability concerns, why would this be featured in WP:DYK it its not notable? Thanks for the time and happy working with you. And by the way, though I created this article, its not mine. --Efe (talk) 02:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that you have made a wise decision. I know though that your decision is based entirely upon my opinion. For that, I apologize. If I have hurt you, I have failed in my approach.

The weaknesses in the article can be corrected. For example: In the beginning, the prose—because of shifting from present tense to past tense, from sentence to sentence—was difficult to read. I made a few minor corrections immediately, and was able to read to the conclusion of the Plot. The Plot though presented a problem: it lacked what Nicholas Sparks intended to convey. Sparks wrote: "My mind then returned to the story I'd been thinking about, and suddenly everything began to click. Within days, I suddenly knew exactly how to tell the story. I knew the characters, the setting, and especially and most importantly, the 'conflict' that would keep the characters apart." The conflict that would keep the characters apart. This is why I suggested to you that you read the book. I doubt seriously that anyone can write a meaningful review of another's work without going directly to the source. What exactly is the conflict, and then the ultimate denouement?

Sources were another problem.

The article relies heavily upon a single source: the website of Nicholas Sparks. Somewhere within the other sources (such as within the reviewer's reviews of Nights) there must be some indepth analysis of the "mixture of mystery and sensuality" which one feels when reading Sparks' story. Rather than have Sparks tell us about these kinds of things, it may be more dramatic to have someone show us where, when, and how things are mysterious and sensual. For instance, isolated scenes which illustrate specifically poignant points often stand out and these scenes then can be described in detail for what they are worth.

Your question about notability is a fair one, and one which I can not answer. The "Did You Know" category's rules suggest that all articles are open to the DYK, and that the DYK is not an endorsement of an article's quality. After all, if an article can be nominated immediately after "stub" creation, and then continue again and again through START, C, B, GA, A, and FA, each time the five-fold rule is met, then I do not see that DYK has much to do with notability. Yet, I am not saying that Nights in Rodanthe is not notable. I am questioning merely why you believe that it is notable. Then I am trying to get you to convey that distinction somewhere within the article, preferably in the Lead.

Find a bunch of readers; talk it up around a few of Wikipedia's similar talkpages, forums, peer reviews, or "requests for comment" boards.

Before I showed upon the scene, Nights in Rodanthe's talkpage was empty. The more readers you find, the more likely this article will be refined into the GA area. JiggleJog (talk) 14:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nights in Rodanthe (novel)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I am currently trying to work with the principal editor in order to address major revisions in the article. A preliminary review was begun on 24 January on the talkpage under the subsection heading "Prose". At this point in time, I have placed the GA review "on hold". Hopefully, the editor will be prepared to present a more revised edition within 14-days.--JiggleJog (talk) 15:08, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The nominator withdrew after reading my opinion (see the talkpage under the subheading "Prose"). JiggleJog (talk) 15:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ugh[edit]

This article needs work.Mae Sendikson (talk) 14:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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