Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cloverland, Washington

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎ the content. This does not preclude a rescope, redirect or rename to be about the Garage. A consensus to delete is not going to emerge here Star Mississippi 02:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cloverland, Washington[edit]

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The article only has one source that says it's a populated place (GNIS, source 1). GNIS is not considered reliable by the Wikipedia community for the classification of places. The Second source is a coat hanger for the garage. Unfortunately, notability of the Garage is not transferable per WP:GNG. Both commonly used Washington place name books don't list this place [1][2]. The Washington newspapers contain articles about a farming district named cloverland and state that it is the farmland surrounded by the forks of Asotin creek. Basically, Orchards [3]. There are a couple of google hits implying it's a town, but looking at the actual sources, you see that it's just a rural area. This source, helps by explaining that it was the name of the voting precinct at one time [4]. There is a website claiming it's a ghost town that looks convincing but it is copied from one of the sources that misrepresented the place, and there was only a cemetery and a garage which isn't the makings of a town. It also uses several pictures of the garage from different angles to make it look like there are more buildings. The fruit operation mentioned in the newspapers failed to pan out, and the area became wheat fields instead of a town. That Garage seems to be all that was ever there. Basically, reliable sources say it was a failed orchard development, that got converted to wheat fields, and there may have been some plans for a town that didn't work out.
James.folsom (talk) 20:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. James.folsom (talk) 20:29, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 20:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Cloverland Garage, which is on the NRHP and is the only barely notable thing about this place. Page 423 of the Lyman source suggests (rather vaguely) that there may have once been a school at Cloverland, but I couldn't find anything else. Seems like it was an "area" rather than a well-defined community. Regardless, without more in the way of sourcing the place isn't notable. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 20:40, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good call, I didn't think to look for an article on the garage. James.folsom (talk) 20:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There's not much left now, but Cloverland was once a real community. The NRHP nomination for the garage (which I added as a reference) goes into its history; it had a peak population of 400 when it was supposed to be an orchard community, and when that didn't work out, residents shifted to other forms of agriculture. The Tri-City Herald covered its history in an article on Washington ghost towns as well, and this book seems to include a fair bit of information on Cloverland, though I can't access the full thing. Based on mentions in area newspapers, it had a school until the 1940s, and it continued to have residents until at least the 1960s. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 21:57, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to go with keep on this one. Looking at the topos is maddening because it straddles the corners of two maps (and there are labels for it in the corners of the other two) but the oldest ones show a street grid in the NW quadrant of the place, and this is verified by an aerial from the 1940s, which also shows buildings in this sector. By the next aerial they are gone. I think there is enough here to write a short history of this ghost town, though merging that into the NRHP article is not unreasonable. Mangoe (talk) 22:32, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - FYI the GNIS is a United States federal database - so not sure why it is not reliable. — Maile (talk) 21:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References Section: The NRHP National Register of Historic Places (United States Department of the Interior National Park Service) form gives the evidence of notability.

Please see 7 Description:

"Situated on a county road at the site that was once downtown Cloverland, the Cloverland Garage is a vernacular commercial building of frame construction." and the entirety of 8. Significance, which details the history of the town. "The townsite of Cloverland was platted early in 1902, and land sales started immediately.Cloverland was billed as "the best opportunity for investment in the West today," according to a newspaper advertisement of the Asotin Land and Irrigation Company in the Asotin Sentinel. Buyers came from such distances as North Dakota, Virginia, and North Carolina. The site of the Cloverland Garage was purchased by Benjamin R. Howard on June 28, 1902. By late 1902, Cloverland had 20 houses, a school, and the store/hall which was built on Benjamin Howard's lot and is today the Cloverland Garage." "Cloverland's population probably peaked about 1910 when the census showed 400 residents".

— Maile (talk) 00:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maile66:: FYI we have found that GNIS is reliable for names and usually locations of places, but not for their character. See WP:GNIS for the gory details. Mangoe (talk) 14:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mangoe: OK, but just so we don't get confused about what I copied above. The National Register of Historic Places (United States Department of the Interior National Park Service) is reliable. And that is the source I used above. Wikipedia partners with Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places and WP has thousands (perhaps millions by now) of articles based on their records. — Maile (talk) 16:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It's not a town, there was a source that made an assumption that has been repeated by other sources. You don't have to go any further than the newspapers of the time to find out it was a farming district. EG [5] one of probably 20+ I could trot out that refer to it as an area (why would they call it an area if it's a town). There are plenty of cemeteries, garages and schools in rural areas, so those things don't prove anything. This "place" is not in the reliable place name books for a reason. If you care about the truth, over just being difficult you'll figure it out.James.folsom (talk) 00:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.