Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harrisville, Alberta

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Deor (talk) 11:55, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Harrisville, Alberta[edit]

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No third party sources to establish notability. Does not meet MOS:CA#Article or redirect?. 117Avenue (talk) 04:38, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep - See WP:GEOLAND. Permanently inhabited places are almost always notable when they can be proven to exist. JT_dale^Talk~ 06:02, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. ^BE _CK ^Y _SA ^{Y L}E _S 06:37, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JTdale: Can you prove this place is inhabited? 117Avenue (talk) 07:00, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies, I withdraw my objection. I misread the article. I'm afraid American systems are quite different to my states, where this would be a 'suburb'. JT_dale^Talk~ 02:02, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as it actually fails WP:GEOLAND. It is not populated. It is not legally-recognized by Alberta Municipal Affairs. It is not recognized whatsoever in the Canadian Geographical Names Data Base, in the Alberta Geographical Names System (can be ordered for free via AESRD), or by Statistics Canada.
This external link is a WP:SELFPUBLISH link. This source published by the Crown of the Continent Geotourism Council, which does not appear to be a WP:RS, indicates there was no store and no post office. Rather it indicates all Harrisville had was a church and a one-room schoolhouse that served as the centre for what appears only to be a surrounding rural area known as Harrisville. This source relates to the church being a registered historic place and in fact confirms Harrisville was a "rural community".
Like at the similar AfD for Flowerdale, Alberta, all I am seeing here is this is a larger rural area in which two buildings served as a focal point for provision of religious and educational services for the rural residents. No evidence is provided that any residents lived in dwellings in the immediate vicinity of the two buildings, just residents living in the surrounding rural landscape. There is nothing here that confirms Harrisville in and of itself is or was notable per WP:GNG. Hwy43 (talk) 10:04, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note I've compared the prose of the article to the second source closely and much of the prose, I would suggest, is WP:COPYVIO. I am tempted to delete all this content as a result. It is definitely WP:PARAPHRASE, which may constitute WP:PLAGIARISM. Hwy43 (talk) 10:27, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Edit it, or tag it, about possibly too-close paraphrasing issue, or remove the passage (and leave a note at the Talk page). Clearly notable: it was a rural community, sources provided. Good use of Wikipedia to provide short description of former communities, for reference. --do ncr am 14:47, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Doncram: per above and similar discussion regarding Flowerdale, there has been no reliably sourced evidence provided that this place met GNG at any time during its existence in order for NTEMP to apply.
As for the copyvio concern, I'll tag it ~~for now as removal~~ with Template:Copyvio upon closure of this discussion if necessary as tagging it now would blank the page, and with it blanked it ~~of the majority of prose in this article during this open discussion~~ would create confusion when trying to cross-reference the above evidence back to the article. Hwy43 (talk) 08:29, 16 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I reiterate my Keep view, as I do at Flowerdale discussion. Confronting/opposing every different view does not help your case. Harrisville was a community. Note the historic site description for the Harrisville church describes the community:

St. Stephen's Roman Catholic Church is located in what was once the rural community of Harrisville. The community was made up of immigrants from a diverse number of ethnic backgrounds that were united in their Roman Catholicism. Harrisville was thus an enclave of European and Canadian settlement in an area settled predominately by American Mormons. / The social development of the community was organized around St. Stephen's Church and the school district. Catholic church services were originally conducted in the homes of the settlers by Oblate priests from Standoff. The Standoff Mission had been established in the 1880s as part of the Oblate mission in southern Alberta. In 1900 the community made the decision to construct a church. In December of that year, the men of the area made the trip to Mcleod with six teams and sleighs to purchase materials for the building. Volunteer labour provided by the area residents completed the church in August 1901. It occupied land provided as a grant from the Crown in February 1901 to the Catholic church. After the building was damaged by high winds in 1901 and 1904, it was rebuilt at its present location in 1907.

Named communities are gazetteer-worthy; Keep per wp:GEOLAND and common sense and general practice in Wikipedia. --do ncr am 20:29, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Doncram, providing additional info helped the nominator's case at the other AfD by triggering a withdrawal of an objection.
Per my message at the other AfD, I have provided greater detail than what can be gleaned from a surficial view of the article, and provided the context of Alberta’s communities and municipalities for the benefit of the nominator and all current and future contributors to the discussion. At least your position has been informed by much more than bare minimum. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 08:03, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment as per my comments on the Flowerdale AfD, there are other sources out there than the usual ones; and not all are searchable google-wise, but are PDF-type pages or other non-google-reactive pages, like the City Directories and historic newspaper archives et al.Skookum1 (talk) 08:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per User:doncram. Free-falling through lost history is one of the pleasures of Wikipedia. Pax 11:59, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 00:48, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - appears to be enough concerning the church/cemetery, etc. to meet WP:NTEMP. VMS Mosaic (talk) 03:31, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:NTEM is not the notability policy for churches, how is the church notable? 117Avenue (talk) 04:57, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, it's a registered historical place which at least in the US would satisfy WP:MAPOUTCOMES. I guess we could move this to an article about the church with a redirect for Harrisville, Alberta. I could support that given that the article is already mostly about the church/cemetery. VMS Mosaic (talk) 05:57, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - So every little old building gets an article? That seems to violate WP:GNG to me. The notable historical sites in Alberta are listed at List of National Historic Sites of Canada in Alberta and Provincial historic sites of Alberta. 117Avenue (talk) 22:36, 25 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Verifiable populated community, and per doncram.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 04:41, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep it had at least a school district, so it was a genuine community. DGG ( talk ) 07:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It may not be inhabited now, but it was in the past - as such, it meets the criteria for inclusion. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 18:44, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.