Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jiang Li (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎ to List of Marvel Comics characters: J#Jiang Li. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:23, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jiang Li[edit]

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Redirect to Shang-Chi: Not sure how this article made it to the mainspace in the first place as it doesn't seem to pass WP:GNG. While the article may appear lengthy and have multiple sections at first sight, the Biography, Powers and abilities, and In other media sections are all focused on in-universe fictional content. The powers and abilities section lacks any citations, while the Biography and In other media sections solely rely on using the comics and the film as WP:PLOTSOURCE. This leaves only the Publication history section, but the majority of that section isn't even related to the subject person. The first paragraph discusses how Shang-chi's mother was supposed to be an unnamed white woman in early drafts (it is not about Jiang Li and that part is uncited). The subsequent paragraphs delve into the development of the Shang-chi comics, and has nothing to do with Jiang Li again. Only the final two paragraphs actually cover Jiang Li, with the first one focusing on the character's portrayal in the film, which already has its own section in the Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe: M–Z#Ying Li. Half of the second paragraph discusses the release of a new Shang-chi comic series based on the film. Only half of the final paragraph contains original content about the character, supported by one secondary source from Comic Book Resources.—Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:54, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In short, the entire article has only two properly cited sentences and one source that actually introduce the character. I have conducted additional searches on the internet, but I could only find one more comic review from CBR that briefly mentions the character.[1] Therefore, I don't believe this comic character deserves her own article at this point, as it fails to meet the criteria of GNG. Normally I would suggest redirecting it to the comic book series Shang-Chi. However, since the series itself is not notable enough to have its own article either, I would recommend filing for deletion.—Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:54, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The first nomination was from 2009, and was thus about a different topic (a non-fictional — and also non-notable — musician) than this comic book character introduced in 2021. (No opinion or further comment at this time.) WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Comics and animation. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 21:09, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Marvel Comics characters: J#Jiang Li in the spirit of WP:PRESERVE. It has no benefit to let that section referring here hanging. Aside from the mentioned sources, there's a web page on the character with some commentary here. Refinery29 as an entertainment news website can be considered reliable for our subject area here, right? I believe with regard to notability, the comics version Jian Li and the Marvel Cinematic Universe version Ying Li should be looked at together, as they are closely related. But as Ying Li does not currently have its own page and I currently have no time for a more intense search, I can't tell if they meet the notability threshold. Please let me know in case anyone finds more secondary sources. Daranios (talk) 11:01, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Shang-Chi - Unfortunately, I am not convinced at all that this character has even the small bit of notability needed to be included on one of the massive "Marvel Character Lists". As the nomination rightly describes, almost none of the content of this article, and very few of the non-primary sources, are even about this character at all or even mention her. And the few sources that do exist specifically on this character are extremely trivial. Rather than worrying about leaving the section at List of Marvel Comics characters: J#Jiang Li hanging, that section should just not be included on that list and should be removed. As her only claim to notability is being the mother of Shang-Chi, and her recent roles in the storylines where she was recently introduced are pretty extensively covered at that article, Redirecting to there would be a sufficient WP:ATD. Rorshacma (talk) 15:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed my vote to a Redirect. My original rationale for deletion was that both Ying Li and the Shang-chi comic series were not available destinations for moving the page. However, I find both Daranios and Rorshacma's arguments reasonable, and I believe Rorshacma's suggestion is slightly better. There isn't much to say about this character even if it were moved to the list article, aside from stating that "she is Shang-chi's mother" and "she is inspired by the film character." Therefore, I changed my vote to a redirect to Shang-chi.—Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 16:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/Redirect to List of Marvel Comics characters: J#Jiang Li to avoid WP:FANCRUFT while retaining material to a more appropriate location for this subject. Redirecting to Shang-Chi would not prove as useful as we shouldn't merge more content on related characters to that article when a comics list entry already exists. Trailblazer101 (talk) 06:03, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The issue, though, is that if we avoid WP:FANCRUFT, there really isn't anything left to merge to a character list. This is a very minor, recently introduced character that just does not really have any good sourcing to show even a small bit a notability. Merging every character to massive character lists, even ones that are completely non-notable, just makes massive lists filled with non-notable, poorly sourced information. Rorshacma (talk) 16:12, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Marvel Comics characters: J#Jiang Li Does not pass WP:GNG. There is very little to merge. Jontesta (talk) 03:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jontesta: But that section currently only contains a link here. So in my view it not very helpful to redirect to a basically empty section that then just tells us that this is some Marvel character but not any context. Shouldn't at least a brief character description, development of the character over time - American White woman, then scion of Ta Lo, then the adaption into film as Ying Li - based on the primary and secondary sources we have, be put into that target section to make things clear for the interested reader? Daranios (talk) 09:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The idea would be to merge over some content from this article to that section to retain a brief overview of this character. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One of the rationales when I was nominating the article for deletion is because of the lack of content. Aside from "she is Shang-chi's mother" and "the character is inspired by the film's counterpart", there is nothing else to say. The fact that she is Shang-chi's mother can be added to Shang-chi's biography, and the film counterpart already has a section in Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe: M–Z. A similar example I could think of is Darcy Lewis. The fact that Lewis was an MCU original character who later appeared in the comics was mentioned in the film character's section in the MCU character list, so it is also a considerable option for Jiang Li's case. Mentioning that Shang-chi's mother was intended to be a white woman in early drafts shouldn't be added to Jiang Li's biography, since that simply wasn't this character. So I don't really see a point of adding a super minor character of two sentences to the list article. A redirect to Shang-chi would be sufficient.—Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 11:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.