Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of famous short men

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, rename might be in order though. W.marsh 21:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of famous short people[edit]

List of famous short men (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of famous short women (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Non-encyclopedic, subjective. --Ineffable3000 05:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Listcruft is not an actual reason. At best it's a buzzword. It be like me saying "Keep listalicious" instead of giving an explanation for my vote.--T. Anthony 10:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Maybe it should be renamed to be "list of people with dwarfism", but not all people classed as "little people" consider themselves to have dwarfism. For example I don't. (Although being called a dwarf is acceptable to me) Having just one list of people under 150 centimeters would be acceptable to me, but shortness is a real factor in peoples' lives and public image.--T. Anthony 10:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rename List of famous men by height through 5 ft 5 in (165 cm). Its a valid topic address by others Amazon, FamousHeights.com. The list requires the men to be famous - a widely-recognized person who commands a high degree of public and media attention. Dispute over whether a person is famous may be resolved by existing Wikipedia policies and guidlines. The list is limited by gender, celebrity, and height. Thus, the list is encyclopedic and is not subjective. -- Jreferee 12:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. Now I'm really confused. Your link to amazon is to a list of CDs and DVDs under the heading Famous Short Men with written beneath it Qualifications: Tall Man (fat, gay, black). How does this address the same topic? WJBscribe 12:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very weak keep. Unlike the bald, moustached and bearded lists, there is precedent for people like Billy Barty and even Mickey Rooney to be known in part because of their height. However both articles need to be renamed as it requires POV judgement -- what constitutes famous? Also, clearly criteria needs to be set out for inclusion. A 5'6 man isn't necessarily notably short. Someone who is a dwarf or 5'1 could be. 23skidoo 13:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep, list is somehow encyclopedic, this list could be all those who are dwarfs. A criteria needs to be added as what 23skidoo said. T. Anthony made a point, it should be renamed "List of people with dwarfism". If you use the word short, anyone will just add any ordinary person who is just shorter than average. So dwarfism will be a better word to describe it. Terence Ong 13:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On a personal level I'm not real comfortable with that for reasons explained above, but I'd accept it as "dwarfism" is the most accepted blanket term.--T. Anthony 14:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep You are confusing short stature with dwarfism, Dwarfism is a genetic change that results in short bones, and the gene for it is dominant. Short stature is caused by not enough HGH. It is not arbitrary and has a distinct cutoff. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 06:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep informative, and as long as citations continue to be added, wholly encyclopeadic. DavyJonesLocker 21:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep BrenDJ 22:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete article subject not well defined as "short" can mean "anything more than three inches shorter than the reader." Thus any criterion used in this list is subjective at best, which means that it doesn't meet WP:LIST. In order to keep the list (in some form), it must use a well defined term for the title and an unambiguous rule for inclusion and exclusion. Neither appear here. B.Wind 01:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Some of what you are saying is just not so. There is a cut-off point and I made the introduction state that their shortness should be part of their fame or significance. If this has not yet been achieved that doesn't mean it won't ever be.--T. Anthony 03:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's still POV - there are many people who do not consider 5' 5" as short. At the least, the title needs to be changed to a NPOV name. Note also that Wikipedia is supposed to be global in scope and viewpoint; the list has a strong American bias in its interpretations as to what constitutes as "tall". B.Wind 06:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but it could be fixable. All you'd need is sourcing that their comparative shortness was significant to their notability. Although if you prefer the cut off could be 155 centimeters for males and 142 centimeters for females. This would be noticeably shorter than any average height in major nations. ("Pygmies" like Ota Benga could also be excluded if need be).--T. Anthony 07:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep/RENAME: wikipedia does not use the word "famous" in titles. Mukadderat 02:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Nothing at all wrong with list of famous people and physical attributes. Especially if it's such notable characteristic as height. -- Freemarket 09:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep/Rename - Drop "famous". Hmmm, short people. Napoleon instantly comes to mind. It may be useful to browse such a list. Can be used by teachers and parents to provide examples of individuals who overcame that particular limitation. Might also be particularly relevant for short people who want more information on other short people, to learn how they coped with their shortness. Having such a list would also provide a research tool for those studying related issues such as biases, discrimination against, and social attitudes toward short people.  The Transhumanist   13:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep+Rename per people who have said that. --Wizardman 17:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and Rename per above. HamishMacBeth 16:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or merge but don't deletePaweł ze Szczecina 20:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Verification is needed. I'm afraid, that Kaczyński is much taller than 1,5 m :)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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