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February 24[edit]

Category:Effects[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 08:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Ambiguous, fails WP:CATDEF. Category was deleted in 2007, recreated 2016. Paradoctor (talk) 20:41, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People who were forensically reconstructed[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 08:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining (e.g. for Mary Anderson (decedent) or Richard III of England). Forensic reconstruction is just one of several techniques used to identify a dead body (others include teeth, DNA, fingerprints and isotopes).  I've checked a sample of the articles and all are in many more appropriate categories (e.g. based on location). Note: The majority of pages in the upper category are actually redirects into lists (i.e. this appears to be an attempt to create a list rather than to categorize articles). For info: The category was created without any parent categories. DexDor (talk) 19:53, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:53, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- not very useful. If kept at all the first one (mostly murder victims) should be purged of redirects to lists, which would leave cases where there was a substantive article on the murder or discovery. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Issues (societal and conceptual)[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (Talk) 14:32, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Basically a WP:XY cat, see previous discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 January 13#Category:Issues Paradoctor (talk) 19:26, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I added the qualifier of societal and conceptual to the category name, specifically to address the concerns from the earlier discussion in a constructive and substantive way. --Sm8900 (talk) 19:55, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as vague, unnecessary and per previous discussion. DexDor (talk) 20:07, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, utterly vague and per WP:G4, recreation of a recently deleted category. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:19, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Geographic history of Australia[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Perhaps an RFC might be helpful. – Fayenatic London 19:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The academic discipline of Historical geography is a long standing one, the word order is wrong in relation to the disciple, and from understanding that tradition needs to be changed to tie into the base category. It could be argued that there are substantial numbers of texts with 'geographical history' in their titles, and no doubt there could be tiresome google checks, I would argue that historical geography is the more suitable, however, it is a case of wait and see the attitude of fellow editors. JarrahTree 07:43, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
either someone has a very perverse sense of humour, misunderstanding of english, or a view that word order doesnt matter. The geography departments in most universities have lecturers and staff who work with historical geography JarrahTree 13:45, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
British historical geography and North American historical geography seem to have followed different paths over the past decade or so. In Britain, there has been a recent rapprochement with cultural geography, and important work has been pursued on the historical geography of collections, instruments and cultural practices. By contrast, significant contributions by historical geographers in the U.S. and Canada have remained closer to debates in environmental history and in the application of spatial technologies to economic and social history.
Neither of these paths seems to be related to the category content. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:37, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bozo the Clown[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (Talk) 14:32, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Category that's serving primarily as an intersection of multiple overcategorization violations. One of the things being collected here is every individual television station that ever produced or carried a version of the Bozo the Clown show at all -- but we don't do this for individual stations carrying syndicated shows, because it would lead to extreme category bloat if we did it for every syndicated television show that exists. Then the second thing here is a bunch of actors whose careers included playing Bozo the Clown in one of the versions, a straight performer by performance violation. And once the television stations and the Bozos are cleared out accordingly, all that would be left is two versions of the syndicated show, a franchised cartoon and a documentary special about the history of the show, which is not enough content to need an eponymous category anymore. Bearcat (talk) 04:03, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, only 4 articles belong to be in this category and they can easily be interlinked directly, without the use of a category. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:59, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Unless someone can actually create decent articles linked directly to the clown, but that'll be some pretty big shoes to fill. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 12:45, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Category:Boris Johnson Delete as per nom. Grutness...wha? 02:00, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American sportspeople of Palestinian descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge; no consensus about removal from Arab hierarchy, so merge there also. – Fayenatic London 16:04, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Small category. Non-notable intersection. TM 03:18, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:32, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or upmerge - categorization by descent is silly (how many generations back do you go?) and (IMO) is more trouble than it's worth. DexDor (talk) 21:14, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge as nom (do not upmerge to the Arab parent category). Intersections of descent and occupation, or ethnicity and occupation, are rarely useful and do not seem to be motivated by any specific link in this case. Place Clichy (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American comedians of Iraqi descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American people of Iraqi descent. Already merged to comedians category below (see "Lebanese" discussion). – Fayenatic London 15:50, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Also Category:American people of Iraqi descent. Splitting this small category by nationality does not make sense. There is no distinct Iraqi-American comedy tradition that would justify it. Moreover, it only has 1 article. TM 04:08, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:57, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - Iraq is a multinational country and Iraqi diaspora is mostly non-Arab ethnically (Assyrian, Chaldean, Jewish, Mandaean, Kurdish, etc); Branding all Iraqis as Arabs is Arabocentric.GreyShark (dibra) 20:48, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:31, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Category:American people of Iraqi descent only per Marcocapelle. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:27, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or upmerge - categorization by descent is silly (how many generations back do you go?) and (IMO) is more trouble than it's worth. DexDor (talk) 21:14, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Category:American people of Iraqi descent and Category:American comedians (do not upmerge to the Arab parent category). Intersections of descent and occupation, or ethnicity and occupation, are rarely useful and do not seem to be motivated by any specific link in this case. Place Clichy (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Marcocapelle, BrownHairedGirl, Greyshark09, and Namiba: merging only to the national descent category leaves out the professional category, would you agree to also upmerge to the professional category? Place Clichy (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The only article is also in another subcat in the American comedians tree so there is no need to merge here. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    My comment was relating just as much to the other similar nominations above and below this one (I guess a grouped nomination could have avoiding repeating a lot of often identical arguments, but what's done is done). Of course I would have expected tools to avoid upmerging an article to a parent category if another more precise subcategory is already present in said article. Place Clichy (talk) 09:39, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American comedians of Jordanian descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American people of Jordanian descent. – Fayenatic London 15:35, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Also Category:American people of Jordanian descent. Splitting this small category by nationality does not make sense. There is no distinct Jordanian-American comedy tradition that would justify it. Moreover, it only has 1 article. TM 04:08, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:57, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral - though this is mixing ethnicity and nationality in the Jordanian case the vast majority of Jordanians are Arabs.GreyShark (dibra) 20:49, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:31, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American comedians of Lebanese descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American people of Lebanese descent and Category:American comedians of Arab descent, since the latter is defining for the two current members here. – Fayenatic London 15:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Also Category:American people of Lebanese descent. Splitting this small category by nationality does not make sense. There is no distinct Lebanese-American comedy tradition that would justify it. Moreover, it only has 2 articles. TM 04:09, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:31, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - Lebanon is a multinational country and Lebanese diaspora is mostly non-Arab ethnically; it is a simple Eurocentrism to think that all Lebanese are Arab.GreyShark (dibra) 20:47, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:31, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or upmerge - categorization by descent is silly (how many generations back do you go?) and (IMO) is more trouble than it's worth. DexDor (talk) 21:13, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- The two people concerned seem to identify as Arabs, according their articles. The wider point about many Lebanese migrants being Armenians, Assyrians, etc is potentially valid. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Category:American people of Lebanese descent and Category:American comedians (do not upmerge to the Arab parent category). Intersections of descent and occupation, or ethnicity and occupation, are rarely useful and do not seem to be motivated by any specific link in this case. Place Clichy (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American comedians of Egyptian descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American people of Egyptian descent and Category:American comedians. – Fayenatic London 17:06, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Also Category:American people of Egyptian descent. Splitting this small category by nationality does not make sense. There is no distinct Egyptian-American comedy tradition that would justify it. Moreover, it only has 4 articles. TM 04:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - can you show that members of this category are all Arabs?GreyShark (dibra) 20:50, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good point. It seems, in general, that categorizing by ethnic descent is tricky. Often enough accurate information is lacking. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:36, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That Egyptian descent category has always been under an Arab descent category so any articles in it are already in the Arab descent category. DexDor (talk) 17:40, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • After User:Greyshark09's justified objections in this and several other discussions on this page, I am starting to wonder if we should better get rid of the Arab descent tree altogether. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:07, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:31, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American journalists of Lebanese descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American people of Lebanese descent and Category:American journalists. – Fayenatic London 14:59, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Also Category:American people of Lebanese descent. Splitting this small category by nationality does not make sense. There is no distinct Lebanese-American journalistic tradition that would justify it. TM 04:14, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, the category contains 7 articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:33, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - Lebanon is a multinational country and Lebanese diaspora is mostly non-Arab ethnically; it is a simple Eurocentrism to think that all Lebanese are Arab. Very biased proposal.GreyShark (dibra) 20:44, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Any blame belongs to those who set up the category structure - not the CFD nominator. DexDor (talk) 20:16, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:30, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or upmerge - categorization by descent is silly (how many generations back do you go?) and (IMO) is more trouble than it's worth. DexDor (talk) 20:16, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- With 6 articles, this is enough to keep. Some are of Christian heritage, which is not necessarily Arab; indeed Arab tends to be linked to being Muslim. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Peterkingiron: The issue here is not the size of the category, but the validity of the intersection per the WP:OCEGRS guideline. Is the fact of being at the same time American, of Lebanese descent, and a journalist itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right? Are these journalists significantly different from American journalists from different descents in their journalism (or from Lebanese-descent journalists from other nationalities), assuming that it is this journalism that makes them notable enough to have a Wikipedia article? Place Clichy (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge (do not upmerge to the Arab parent category). Intersections of descent and occupation, or ethnicity and occupation, are rarely useful and do not seem to be motivated by any specific link in this case. Place Clichy (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American journalists of Syrian descent[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:American people of Syrian descent and Category:American journalists. – Fayenatic London 14:52, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Also Category:American people of Syrian descent. Splitting this small category by nationality does not make sense. There is no distinct Syrian-American journalistic tradition that would justify it. TM 04:14, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:56, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - Syria is a multinational country and Syrian diaspora is mostly non-Arab ethnically; it is a simple Eurocentrism to think that all Syrians are Arab; Syria is not in the Arab League.GreyShark (dibra) 20:44, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 01:29, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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