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September 25[edit]

Category:People from Pskov Oblast[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:23, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each Rathfelder (talk) 22:00, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Kurgan Oblast[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:22, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each Rathfelder (talk) 20:18, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on the population of the Russian categories: Oppose for all: Category:People from Zverinogolovsky District (29), Category:People from Shadrinsky District (39), Category:People from Yurgamyshsky District (30), Category:People from Petukhovo (18), Category:People from Mokrousovsky District (23), Category:People from Mishkinsky District, Kurgan Oblast (20), Category:People from Kataysky District (31), Category:People from Kargapolsky District (42), Category:People from Dalmatovsky District (25, excluding people from Dalmatovo), Category:People from Dalmatovo (8).Furius (talk) 21:19, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the number of articles in the Russian wiki is irrelevant assuming such people do not as yet have en wiki articles (and in any case the numbers cited appear to include people who were born in or died in the respective areas, not generally included in en wiki categories). Oculi (talk) 22:41, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    To be clear, I have excluded "People who died in" and "people buried in" from these figures. I'm baffled by the claim that en.wiki doesn't include people who were born in a given area, since Category:People by county in the United States is full of such people. As stated below, the numbers on ru.wiki are relevant, because they indicate potential for growth. Having the equivalent category tree there is also useful for interwiki translation work. Furius (talk) 22:58, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all. Categories are useful as a navigation tool between articles about the same topic. When lots of categories only have 1 or a few articles the whole purpose of categories goes astray. The fact that there is useful translation work to be done can also be derived from the limited number of articles at a higher level, that is certainly not a reason to keep all these smallcats. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:19, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not what WP:SMALLCAT says. You're one of the most regular contributors here, so what you and Oculi saying clearly is what practice actually is, but perhaps you could update the guidelines to reflect that practice? (e.g. "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members..." --> "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members or that currently have very few members..." or whatever the rule is). Furius (talk) 14:30, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think we have to look at the number of articles actually in English Wikipedia unless there is some reason to expect more in the near future. Categories are supposed to be defining, and place of birth is not necessarily so. Rathfelder (talk) 15:03, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • NB there are hundreds more like this, but I'm not going to nominate them until this discussion is resolved. Rathfelder (talk) 22:07, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Samara Oblast[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:24, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each. Rathfelder (talk) 20:07, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on population of the ru.wiki categories, Support for: Category:People from Shigonsky District (4), Category:People from Kinel (5), Category:People from Borsky District, Samara Oblast (14). Oppose for: Category:People from Zhigulyovsk (16), Category:People from Volzhsky District, Samara Oblast (12), Category:People from Krasnoarmeysky District, Samara Oblast (19), Category:People from Koshkinsky District (11), Category:People from Kinel-Cherkassky District (21), Category:People from Khvorostyansky District (7), Category:People from Chapayevsk (24). On the fence about: Category:People from Bezenchuksky District (6). Furius (talk) 21:23, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - this is the wrong way round - create the articles first, then create the categories when there are enough articles (5 or 6). Oculi (talk) 22:48, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all. See more elaborate discussion further up this page. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:31, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Tula Oblast[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:24, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each Rathfelder (talk) 17:21, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for Category:People from Uzlovsky District (41 individuals on ru.wiki), Category:People from Shchyokinsky District (53 on ru.wiki), Category:People from Shchyokino (town), Tula Oblast (22 on ru.wiki), Category:People from Plavsky District (15 on ru.wiki), Category:People from Leninsky District, Tula Oblast (12 on ru), Category:People from Dubensky District, Tula Oblast (12 on ru), Category:People from Bogoroditsky District (46 on ru). Support for Category:People from Zaoksky District, Category:People from Kurkinsky District, Category:People from Belyov (23, but almost all from Belov town) Furius (talk) 18:03, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm perfectly happy to keep any which have realistic potential for growth. Rathfelder (talk) 20:15, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think these do. When I'm doing translation work, I often use categories like this to identify targets for translation to en.wiki (though Russian isn't one of my languages, yet). Furius (talk) 21:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - this is the wrong way round - create the articles first, then create the categories when there are enough articles (5 or 6). Oculi (talk) 22:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all. See more elaborate discussion further up this page. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:34, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fantasy-comedy films by country[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 3#Category:Fantasy-comedy films by country

Category:Polish pilots[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:25, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I've transferred everything over to Category:Polish aviators. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:09, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This category has been emptied. Liz Read! Talk! 01:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 14:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support for consistency. Category:Pilots is not an active category, I have just changed it from a redirect to a disambiguation page. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:58, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, this category has no use anymore as it has been superseded. — Mugtheboss (talk) 12:07, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Test pilots[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:25, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: There used to be individuals listed here, but some of them were subcategorized by nationality, so I completed the process. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:20, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- Categories relate to multiple individuals and so are typically plural. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:43, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Clarityfiend.seems to be suggesting containerisation
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 14:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Further Comment -- The nom has no doubt done good work in tidying up the category, but the name is already the appropriate one, even if the main article is in the singular. I do not think further containerisation is needed. We have a few general articles related to the subject apart from the main article, but that is OK and should not prevent a container tag being applied. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:32, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Peter, categories are designed to contain multiple articles, and titles are supposed to reflect that. — Mugtheboss (talk) 12:01, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Academic personnel in Europe[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 3#Academic personnel in Europe

Category:Exophonic writers[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 3#Category:Exophonic writers

Category:Songs in memory of Matthew Shepard[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Works about Matthew Shepard. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:29, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: For good housekeeping following previous discussions which resulted in moving members manually and deleting the parent cat Songs in memory of deceased persons and where both categories existed, Songs in Memory of XXX were merged with the Category, Songs about XXX. As stated in previous nomination mentioned above, whether a song was written before or after the death of the subject seems such an artificial distinction. Richhoncho (talk) 10:51, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Tatarstan[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:29, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each Rathfelder (talk) 08:53, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Krasnoyarsk Krai[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:31, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 or 2 articles in each. Rathfelder (talk) 08:31, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People by occupation and city[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:32, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: These three are consistent with many siblings, but were opposed as Speedy nominations on the ground that they are by location not nationality. However, WP:SUBCAT allows for sub-catting where the majority of the contents fit into the parent. – Fayenatic London 08:00, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Copy of Speedy discussion
  • Oppose Not all scientists working in Foo country are Fooian nationals.. This is a "by country" category, not a "by nationality" category. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Laurel Lodged.--Bduke (talk) 11:18, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not all scientists working in Foo country are Fooian nationals.. This is a "by country" category, not a "by nationality" category. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Laurel Lodged.--Bduke (talk) 11:18, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You think these two are different from the rest of Category:Scientists by country and city?Rathfelder (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not all scientists working in Foo country are Fooian nationals.. This is a "by country" category, not a "by nationality" category. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All the others in Category:Artists by city or town are of the form Fooish artists from .... Why is this different? I dont think many editors see a distinction between "by country" categories, and "by nationality" categories. Rathfelder (talk) 14:26, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for consistency. Country and nationality are largely overlapping. We can not check the subjects' passports. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply We don't need to check passports, we only need to check an atlas. London is either in the UK or it is not. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for consistency. The scientists involved are all from cities in Foo via subcats such Category:Scientists from Bangalore (as opposed to say faculty of the University of Bar in Foo) and may be reasonably assumed to be Fooish. In any case it is a subcat scheme for Category:British scientists and so should not include non-British. Oculi (talk) 13:05, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not all scientists working in Foo country are Fooian nationals. This is a "by country" category, not a "by nationality" category. The scope of the category is "cities in a state"; an atlas will verify the state if necessary. The proposal would change the scope to "nationals who happen to live in a city"; to verify this claim, you would need to see their passport. The category is not broken so don't fix it. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:50, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The distinction between "by country" categories and "by nationality" categories clearly escapes many editors. Categories are supposed to be defining, and these relate to the location of what made the person notable, not their nationality. That is why academics of universities are included in People from Foo categories but students arent. Rathfelder (talk) 22:12, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    (edit conflict) For sportspeople, an occupation noted for a high proportion of expatriate players, we have both Category:Sportspeople by country and Category:Sportspeople by nationality. Religious leaders are the only other occupation with a similar hierarchy in Category:People by occupation and country. For all other occupations, we have only "by nationality", and follow the flexibility permitted by WP:SUBCAT (where it says "with possibly a few exceptions") and have sub-cats by city within categories by nationality; see e.g. the hierarchies for politicians and writers within Category:People by occupation and nationality and city, and all the hierarchies within Category:People by nationality and occupation and city. "Not all in Foo are Fooian" is therefore not a conclusive rationale against this nomination. – Fayenatic London 16:27, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Medieval Arab people by occupation[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (after manual merge) or rename as per nom. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:41, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete (after manual merge) or rename, trivial intersection between ethnicity and occupation (WP:OCEGRS). Articles may be moved to an occupation in the medieval Islamic world category or a more specific category in that tree (e.g. Al-Andalus or Abbasid Caliphate) if they aren't already there. And the latter is quite likely. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair point. The articles should already be in an Arabs by century category, but it will not harm to check that as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support generally - I checked Astronomers, which covered everywhere from Iraq to Morocco, with a few people not identified by nationality. "Select merge" must be difficult for the closing admin. Please add target categories to articles so that the closing admin can just delete redundant categories. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:12, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would not expect the closer to implement the proposal right away, presumably they will list this at WP:CFDWM. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Many categories are based on both ethnicity and occupation, for example Category:Medieval Jews by occupation and Category:Medieval Iranian by occupation. An astronomer in Al-Andalus can be of Arab, Berber, Jewish or Persian descent. It's not an exact substitute. Al-Andalusi (talk) 18:05, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes there is still a lot of clean-up to be done. But that shouldn't be a reason not to clean this up. For being an astronomer it is entirely irrelevant where their ancestors came from. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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